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What you've got is in fact a people problem

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Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#41

Post by nine_zeros »

winrid wrote: post #36
nine_zeros wrote: post #20

> your ICs won’t have the full picture. They really may not understand why certain priorities are set the way they are. You’ll need to take that as feedback for improving internal comms rather than “fixing” the perceived problem, and you certainly don’t want to make empty promises. One time, my manager gave me negative ratings out of nowhere. In his review, he wrote that I rolled a feature a few days late. I chatted…

You were given a negative rating because they didn't have the budget for a bonus.

I know for a fact that me, and 3 others, were given negative ratings to manage us out.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#42

Post by jonmoore »

cebert wrote: post #2

> Talk to your ICs, and — taking care to make sure they understand that you want honest feedback and that they are safe to offer it — ask them what problems your organization has. Can you reasonably expect for there to be a true “safe space” in a professional setting? It’s always good to be candid and transparent, but I’d never assume I’m in a complete safe space no matter which organization I am in.

I can be pretty cynical about corporate politics but that kind of consultant-IC interview is almost always safe. It’s wildly against the consultant’s interests to cause serious conflict to break out and it’s easy to tone down inflammatory comments. Also, if the IC’s ideas are ones likely to rile up management the consultant is going to drop them. There are also potential upsides; if senior management is decent they will be glad that their employees have good suggestions and a good fraction of consultants will be glad to credit the ICs once management have bought in; ofc some will take all the credit themselves but that’s still a low-downside proposition.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#43

Post by OldGuyInTheClub »

Aeolun wrote: post #30
OldGuyInTheClub wrote: post #17

"As a consultant, I’m going to be seen as some random guy wasting their time with a meeting." Yes, he will and that's because he is. His approach may work with midsize companies where word might not get aound. In large diversified one where his specialty is one of thousands? No. There is an industry of consultants who come in with a similar approach promising to listen and claiming that they have the ear of senior le…

> That's direct from my company lawyer's briefing to new managers. Just because your company is fucked up doesn’t mean all of them are. Part of the briefing to new managers at my company is how to take critical feedback.

> Just because your company is fucked up doesn’t mean all of them are.

No, not all but exceptions are just that.

> Part of the briefing to new managers at my company is how to take critical feedback.

There was some of that as well. Absorb what you can, deflect what you can't, and make sure it doesn't affect the bottom line.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#44

Post by OldGuyInTheClub »

Swizec wrote: post #26
OldGuyInTheClub wrote: post #17

"As a consultant, I’m going to be seen as some random guy wasting their time with a meeting." Yes, he will and that's because he is. His approach may work with midsize companies where word might not get aound. In large diversified one where his specialty is one of thousands? No. There is an industry of consultants who come in with a similar approach promising to listen and claiming that they have the ear of senior le…

> Corporate "Safe spaces" are not real. Any manager is a representative of the company 24/7 and everything is on the record I have had a lot of success with knowing this, saying “Great! Let’s go” and loudly complaining about things that are fucked up to anyone who will listen. This has opened a lot of doors and gotten me into a lot of meetings that I otherwise wouldn’t have access to. Sometimes it has enabled me to c…

> Yes it takes years of building trust and a track record of successes before you can do this. Worth the investment.

I built that record. The first time I gave the candid feedback that a project manager requested in an open meeting, I was off the project the next day.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#45

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

atq2119 wrote: post #39
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest this is what I usually see, not what GP describes. I've never worked with anyone who was ignorant of the people problems around them. Interns, maybe.

I would argue that all of the ideology-based advocacy for Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies is/was advocating to solve a people problem with technology.

Sounds about right. I don't intersect with those folks.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#46

Post by fbdab103 »

OldGuyInTheClub wrote: post #18
pdonis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you reasonably expect for there to be a true “safe space” in a professional setting? My experience has generally been that, even if a leadership level person is being sincere when they say they want honest feedback and it is safe to offer it, the junior level person they are meeting with doesn't believe it. (An economist would call this an example of the "market for lemons" problem.) That is a big reason why ou…

The consultant is being paid by management. S/he is beholden to them. If anything can be traced back to a group or individual, it will be, and it won't be pleasant for anyone who believed the request for honest feedback.

I was going to say, it is well accepted that McKinsey and related are nothing more than a way for management to launder unpopular decisions.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#47

Post by operatingthetan »

fbdab103 wrote: post #46
OldGuyInTheClub wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The consultant is being paid by management. S/he is beholden to them. If anything can be traced back to a group or individual, it will be, and it won't be pleasant for anyone who believed the request for honest feedback.

I was going to say, it is well accepted that McKinsey and related are nothing more than a way for management to launder unpopular decisions.

That is only one aspect of consulting, so you are over-generalizing.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#48

Post by pdonis »

OldGuyInTheClub wrote: post #18
pdonis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you reasonably expect for there to be a true “safe space” in a professional setting? My experience has generally been that, even if a leadership level person is being sincere when they say they want honest feedback and it is safe to offer it, the junior level person they are meeting with doesn't believe it. (An economist would call this an example of the "market for lemons" problem.) That is a big reason why ou…

The consultant is being paid by management. S/he is beholden to them. If anything can be traced back to a group or individual, it will be, and it won't be pleasant for anyone who believed the request for honest feedback.

The article is describing a case where what you describe did not happen--he, the consultant, was able to convey feedback from working level people to management, that the working level people were unable to convey themselves, and management liked the feedback. And the article says other consultants have described similar experiences.

Of course there are companies where consultants do not have this happy outcome--either because management doesn't listen to the feedback even from the consultant, or because the consultant does what you describe and doesn't protect the working level people who confided in them. But the article indicates that this doesn't have to happen, and that was my point: as I said, the consultant has a shot at getting to a solution of the problem.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#49

Post by csa »

dang wrote: post #28

Jerry Weinberg's classic Secrets of Consulting has tons of hard-won wisdom about this kind of thing. " No matter how it looks at first, it's always a people problem ." - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... He posted once to HN ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1825352 - but start here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1813443 ) Edit: There's also Gerald M. Weinberg has died - http…

Thank you for these links, dang!

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#50

Post by OldGuyInTheClub »

dilyevsky wrote: post #19
cebert wrote: post #2

> Talk to your ICs, and — taking care to make sure they understand that you want honest feedback and that they are safe to offer it — ask them what problems your organization has. Can you reasonably expect for there to be a true “safe space” in a professional setting? It’s always good to be candid and transparent, but I’d never assume I’m in a complete safe space no matter which organization I am in.

Ime it never hurts to share your thoughts candidly with the leadership as long as your thoughts are what leadership wants to hear

Straight outta Broadway!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXmuuDbFy1Q

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