Live data from Hacker News

What you've got is in fact a people problem

blog.glyph.im

11–20 of 131 posts

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#11

It often is a people problem, and when it is, it's likely to be at the leadership level. What stumps me however is how to move past those problems -- when the decision makers at an organization themselves are what's dragging the ship down, how will things ever change? Blog author doesn't cover it, but my uneducated guess is... the consult ends with a technical recommendation, but the people problem remains unresolved…

The majority of managers I have encountered have a superiority complex. Because they are the manager they know better. They have a misguided idea that they were promoted on the basis of some meritocracy instead of being good political operatives or shameless sycophants.

That is why only the advice of very expensive consultants is valued. Many times I have had after work drinks with staff who complain that they have been trying to tell the management what the highly paid consultant did.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#12
post #2

> Talk to your ICs, and — taking care to make sure they understand that you want honest feedback and that they are safe to offer it — ask them what problems your organization has. Can you reasonably expect for there to be a true “safe space” in a professional setting? It’s always good to be candid and transparent, but I’d never assume I’m in a complete safe space no matter which organization I am in.

Different bosses will react differently.

There are bosses who get violently angry and fire people. Nobody will trust that boss with honest feedback... ever.

There are the bosses who are simply dismissive of what their staff is already telling them. In that case, the boss is having this meeting to tell his staff "I ignored and forgot everything you told me previously, but this time will be different. I'm prepared to listen this time." That boss may be able to make good on the strategy in the article.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#13
post #2

> Talk to your ICs, and — taking care to make sure they understand that you want honest feedback and that they are safe to offer it — ask them what problems your organization has. Can you reasonably expect for there to be a true “safe space” in a professional setting? It’s always good to be candid and transparent, but I’d never assume I’m in a complete safe space no matter which organization I am in.

> Can you reasonably expect for there to be a true “safe space” in a professional setting?

My experience has generally been that, even if a leadership level person is being sincere when they say they want honest feedback and it is safe to offer it, the junior level person they are meeting with doesn't believe it. (An economist would call this an example of the "market for lemons" problem.) That is a big reason why outside consultants can break the ice on something like this, as the article describes, where internal conversations can't: the consultant can credibly promise that honest feedback won't adversely affect the speaker (the obvious way to do that is to not attribute anything to any particular person when the consultant reports to leadership), so they have a shot at actually getting the honest feedback that is needed to get to a solution to the problem.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#14
What is fascinating to me about technical people is the particular subculture that sincerely believes that technology will solve the people problem. I recently got into a long thread argument with someone on HN about this. The person was adamant that people problems can NOW finally be solved by designing technology to be able to handle adversarial and incompetent actors. But the problems that such software tries to solve are tightly defined in scope and cannot deal with actually messed up people or organizational problems. Unless engineers are willing to acknowledge people problems, they will keep banging their heads against the door when the organization isn't doing what it's supposed to do.

But it's far easier to acknowledge the people problem first and see if there is a solution for that, rather than trying to ram technological solutions through a people-shaped hole. And if the people problem can't be solved (i.e., it will often involve a change in culture and leadership style, or else a change in leadership, both of which are difficult), it may be best to give up anyway and wash one's hands of the whole mess. In which case, one just sits there going through the motions to pass the day and collect the pay. If they're motivated, they'll find another job, rather than try to fix the mess, and they'll likely be happier doing that too. This is also why it takes a certain non-technical skillset combined with technical skills to succeed in leadership roles. It's a completely different game to play.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#15
post #2

> Talk to your ICs, and — taking care to make sure they understand that you want honest feedback and that they are safe to offer it — ask them what problems your organization has. Can you reasonably expect for there to be a true “safe space” in a professional setting? It’s always good to be candid and transparent, but I’d never assume I’m in a complete safe space no matter which organization I am in.

I believed that strongly, to the point that it was borderline immoral to not share.

Then I sold the startup and worked at Google for 6 years.

1 out of 4 managers hit the bar that I figured would be a floor, you could have a constructive conversation with them and they'd help you if something was up.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#16
post #14

What is fascinating to me about technical people is the particular subculture that sincerely believes that technology will solve the people problem. I recently got into a long thread argument with someone on HN about this. The person was adamant that people problems can NOW finally be solved by designing technology to be able to handle adversarial and incompetent actors. But the problems that such software tries to s…

I’ve also seen the reverse:

What’s presented as a technical solution is actually a process solution to address a people problem.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#17
"As a consultant, I’m going to be seen as some random guy wasting their time with a meeting."

Yes, he will and that's because he is. His approach may work with midsize companies where word might not get aound. In large diversified one where his specialty is one of thousands? No. There is an industry of consultants who come in with a similar approach promising to listen and claiming that they have the ear of senior leadership. They have no positive impact whatsoever. By the time their recommendations burble up the chain, management will change, and the cycle will be repeated with the next consultant.

Corporate "Safe spaces" are not real. Any manager is a representative of the company 24/7 and everything is on the record. That's direct from my company lawyer's briefing to new managers.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#18
post #13
post #2

> Talk to your ICs, and — taking care to make sure they understand that you want honest feedback and that they are safe to offer it — ask them what problems your organization has. Can you reasonably expect for there to be a true “safe space” in a professional setting? It’s always good to be candid and transparent, but I’d never assume I’m in a complete safe space no matter which organization I am in.

> Can you reasonably expect for there to be a true “safe space” in a professional setting? My experience has generally been that, even if a leadership level person is being sincere when they say they want honest feedback and it is safe to offer it, the junior level person they are meeting with doesn't believe it. (An economist would call this an example of the "market for lemons" problem.) That is a big reason why ou…

The consultant is being paid by management. S/he is beholden to them. If anything can be traced back to a group or individual, it will be, and it won't be pleasant for anyone who believed the request for honest feedback.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#19
post #2

> Talk to your ICs, and — taking care to make sure they understand that you want honest feedback and that they are safe to offer it — ask them what problems your organization has. Can you reasonably expect for there to be a true “safe space” in a professional setting? It’s always good to be candid and transparent, but I’d never assume I’m in a complete safe space no matter which organization I am in.

Ime it never hurts to share your thoughts candidly with the leadership as long as your thoughts are what leadership wants to hear

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#20
> your ICs won’t have the full picture. They really may not understand why certain priorities are set the way they are. You’ll need to take that as feedback for improving internal comms rather than “fixing” the perceived problem, and you certainly don’t want to make empty promises.

One time, my manager gave me negative ratings out of nowhere. In his review, he wrote that I rolled a feature a few days late. I chatted with him and explained that the delay was because of production freezes (see dates) and bureaucratic steps (see dates). He didn't want to hear it. I asked what the consequences were of the delay, did it affect a customer? Did it impact revenue? I knew it didn't because I was always checking in but I wanted to hear it from him.

It was clear the priorities were different. I asked what the priorities were. And he couldn't answer.

To the post's point about fixing internal comms, this manager did not WANT to fix internal comms because the internal comms would sound something like, "I just need everyone to finish everything within the quarter - by the exact date - regardless of any company-wide freezes or red tape - because I get scored on it by my boss. I don't want to be at the bottom of the stack rank".

Hard to have clear and precise internal comms when deadlines and deliverables are just a joke with no business value. They'll be found out.

Post reply on HN