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The Matrix Trashfire

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Re: The Matrix Trashfire

#161

Post by rglullis »

tetraca wrote: post #127
rglullis wrote: post #17

Ok, now do XMPP. Or Signal, but with the added requirement that you want to run your own server.

Having set up and administrated both an XMPP and a Matrix server, XMPP is way less a pain in the ass. I've enjoyed dealing with prosody much more than either synapse or dendrite. XMPP doesn't tank my server every time I try to join a new room and it doesn't take forever to start talking in a room after you join it. And provided you're running the server, getting people onto XMPP has not been hard in my experience. I…

If you go through your contact list right now, how many people are on iOS, and how many of them do you think you could successfully convince to use XMPP as the primary method to reach you?

With Matrix, I don't need to convince them.

Re: The Matrix Trashfire

#162

Post by rglullis »

rakoo wrote: post #142
rglullis wrote: post #17

Ok, now do XMPP. Or Signal, but with the added requirement that you want to run your own server.

I did it no later than Yesterday: - Install Conversations on Android - In a prompt, there's a "create an account", I create one (it's with conversations.im) - I have an account - At this point there's a slight confusion between "what discussions are happening" and "what discussions do you know about", but I manage to find a room to a discussion I'm interested in - Get in, see the messages The experience is definitely…

OP was on iOS.

Re: The Matrix Trashfire

#163

Post by jtbayly »

thibaultamartin wrote: post #81
IanCal wrote: post #18

This kind of process is extremely valuable and should be done by devs more often. Start from the start and follow whatever your application tells you to do . Note down when it doesn't tell you where to go or what to do. You'd be surprised by just how many things you do automatically while working because you know the little tricks and things to get by, and that wording doesn't necessarily match what the app requires…

Hi, I'm the Thib person mention in this article, and I agree that QA is super important. I can mostly talk about matrix.org, since I have little power over the Element clients. Disclaimer though: I'm technically employed by Element (to make paperwork simpler since I'm France-based, Element has an entity in France, and the Foundation is UK-based), but I'm working for the Foundation full time. This kind of article is s…

Just wanted to add that I signed up recently and wanted my wife to sign up too. I managed to figure it out, but the article is correct. Even down to trying to figure out whether I should use Element or ElementX on iOS. I also realized that my wife would never figure it all out.

Re: The Matrix Trashfire

#164

Post by skibbityboop »

pixl97 wrote: post #158
MR4D wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked with NTT Docomo years ago for a short time. First time I ever got to see a CMM Level 5 organization. It was insane. No wonder Japanese cars were so much better than everyone else for so long. If you ever get the chance, take it - you will learn way more about software quality than you thought existed!

>No wonder Japanese cars were so much better Heh, this reminds me of an episode of Top Gear I was watching years ago about quality of British cars. They said something along the lines of "The manufacture sais 'eh, good enough' the moment the car is able to move under its own power.

Anyone who has owned a Mini would probably question whether their QA even gets that far.

Re: The Matrix Trashfire

#165

Post by rglullis »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #160
rglullis wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iOS simply sucks here and lowering down your pants to marry yourself to the whims of these insane "platforms" We can be here grandstanding and dismissing other people's choices or we can be pragmatic and find ways to grow the alternative networks to the point where the "mainstream" can no longer ignore it. If you want to continue using XMPP, great. But those that are on Apple are not going to drop their beloved iDe…

> We can be here grandstanding and dismissing other people's choices or we can be pragmatic and find ways to grow the alternative networks to the point where the "mainstream" can no longer ignore it. I have been trying the pragmatic way for over 30 years and it. simply. doesn't. work. The mainstream will drop privacy, federation, and anything in a heartbeat just because the new network comes with a client which can d…

> The mainstream will drop privacy, federation, and anything in a heartbeat just because the new network comes with a client which can do animated GIFs.

ICQ had animated gifs. MSN had animated gifs. Viber has animated gifs. Telegram has animated gifs.

Why shouldn't people expect animated gifs from any decent messenger? Who are we to police what people should prefer for such a crucial piece of technology?

Re: The Matrix Trashfire

#166

Post by upofadown »

dijit wrote: post #124
jesprenj wrote: post #64

I really don't like the forced end to end encryption of chats. I do not care that much about the security of my chats to justify the complications of end to end encryption -- verifying devices, constant "reset" prompts that I don't even know what they do, but they seem like they are very destructive. I trust my homeserver, since I host it myself. I do not need end to end encryption. I understand this is an issue of t…

tbh the best thing about Matrix is that you have a hope in hell of actually federating it. XMPP had that promise but due the XEP situation it quickly became difficult to actually federate as most XEPs are optional or not supported on your federation partners. Everything you said is true; if you can tolerate centralisation then just stick to XMPP, it's pretty good.

What XEP interoperability issues prevent federation?

Re: The Matrix Trashfire

#167

Post by binarymax »

rglullis wrote: post #162
rakoo wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did it no later than Yesterday: - Install Conversations on Android - In a prompt, there's a "create an account", I create one (it's with conversations.im) - I have an account - At this point there's a slight confusion between "what discussions are happening" and "what discussions do you know about", but I manage to find a room to a discussion I'm interested in - Get in, see the messages The experience is definitely…

OP was on iOS.

They were on both iOS and their Mac

Re: The Matrix Trashfire

#168

Post by zaik »

dijit wrote: post #124
jesprenj wrote: post #64

I really don't like the forced end to end encryption of chats. I do not care that much about the security of my chats to justify the complications of end to end encryption -- verifying devices, constant "reset" prompts that I don't even know what they do, but they seem like they are very destructive. I trust my homeserver, since I host it myself. I do not need end to end encryption. I understand this is an issue of t…

tbh the best thing about Matrix is that you have a hope in hell of actually federating it. XMPP had that promise but due the XEP situation it quickly became difficult to actually federate as most XEPs are optional or not supported on your federation partners. Everything you said is true; if you can tolerate centralisation then just stick to XMPP, it's pretty good.

> difficult to actually federate as most XEPs are optional or not supported on your federation partners

This is false.

Re: The Matrix Trashfire

#169

Post by dijit »

upofadown wrote: post #166
dijit wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tbh the best thing about Matrix is that you have a hope in hell of actually federating it. XMPP had that promise but due the XEP situation it quickly became difficult to actually federate as most XEPs are optional or not supported on your federation partners. Everything you said is true; if you can tolerate centralisation then just stick to XMPP, it's pretty good.

What XEP interoperability issues prevent federation?

There are more than 370 XEPs.

Here's the first one I found that causes serverserver incompatibility: https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xep-0369-0.7.1.html

What was always missing was a golden set of standards. Maybe XMPP "2" is XMPP and a set of XEPs and so on.

Otherwise all you have is a bunch of half-working XMPP implementations.

Very famous ones of course include voice/video. The UX on that is atrocious.

Re: The Matrix Trashfire

#170

Post by dijit »

zaik wrote: post #168
dijit wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tbh the best thing about Matrix is that you have a hope in hell of actually federating it. XMPP had that promise but due the XEP situation it quickly became difficult to actually federate as most XEPs are optional or not supported on your federation partners. Everything you said is true; if you can tolerate centralisation then just stick to XMPP, it's pretty good.

> difficult to actually federate as most XEPs are optional or not supported on your federation partners This is false.

Voice/Video is an optional XEP and if it's not supported what happens to the client exactly?

"this is false" is a terribly glib statement with literally no backing and can only be said if a person has either zero knowledge of what they're talking about or they've tied themselves to a single implementation of XMPP everywhere, which is essentially standardising a bunch of XEPs.

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