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Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

theguardian.com

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Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#421

Post by phpisthebest »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #367
phpisthebest wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started working at 16, at a walmart. I only called sick a handful of times, never was late, and did my job to the best of my ability. it is called work ethic. I started at $0.25 above minimum wage, as we given several raises, and position changes by the time I left at age 18, why because I was one of the most reliable teens they had, and they did not want me to go to another employer. Some parents instill work ethi…

I think it's actually developmentally inappropriate for teenagers to have that level of work ethic. A teenager has far too many things on their plate at school to dedicate that much of their energy and motivation to Walmart, even ignoring the cost to their social and cognitive development.

I 100% disagree, the coddling of the American mind is a huge problem and we continue to push out development in favor of these new age idea that "kids cant handle it" with the result that we now have an entire generation of Adult Children...

Most college graduates likely could not pass a 8th grade exam from 100 years ago, the social cost of that is immense.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#423

Post by greenie_beans »

Zpalmtree wrote: post #350
greenie_beans wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yup. that's what needs to change first.

starves to death

what is this even talking about?

it's a snarky comment trying to conflate democratic control of government with communism, i know, but it's ignorant, not funny, nor is it an original joke.

i enjoy edgy humor, but let's stop making jokes about the tragic fate of people in the USSR in an attempt to make an ideological point.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#424

Post by HeatrayEnjoyer »

tristor wrote: post #362
HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is no worse than the demands beared by countless $12/hr general managers.

> This is no worse than the demands beared by countless $12/hr general managers. That is grossly incorrect. Also, general managers don't make $12/hr. The average general manager in the US makes ~$87k/yr, and can be as high as $150k/yr, and depending on the specific industry you can end up with relatively sizeable compensation based on profit sharing and bonus structures. A general manager typically oversees a single…

Your reply is incorrect and inaccurate. Consider this an opportunity to improve, not double down.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#425

Post by ludwigDual »

mcv wrote: post #418
ludwigDual wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Markets do not instantly become monopolized, but they do tend that way, and will also eagerly form cartels unless stopped by regulation. Monopolization requires control of land or resources. This is because any cartel's attempt to set artificially high prices can be undercut by new entrants to the market who aren't in the cartel. > On the other hand, the market for software is not very regulated, it's heavily monop…

There's plenty of pirated Windows around, but everybody still has to use Windows. Linux got into the gaming market only by supporting the Windows apis, and that support is still not quite perfect. It's not copyright that monopolises software, but api support. The need to reverse engineer other people's work. A lack of open standards. There would be more competition possible in software if regulation mandated open sta…

> There's plenty of pirated Windows around, but everybody still has to use Windows.

The threat of jail time for people sharing pirated copies or circumventing copyright protected measures changes the pros/cons people weigh whether or not some people copy or reverse engineer despite those risks. There would be a lot more competition if pirates weren't incurring all these additional risks and were able to compete fairly without state backed copyright monopolies.

> There are a million different factors that can drive monopolization

The primary driver is restricting competition. If your competition is unrestricted then why would they join your cartel when they can outcompete you? Someone will always see that they can get a larger piece of the pie by outcompeting the cartel. Monopolies always use force to prevent winning in fair competition.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#426

Post by ludwigDual »

mjburgess wrote: post #415
ludwigDual wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what factors prevented competition with the "dairy cartel" in Ontario as would happen in a free market. Most likely there are restrictions on what products can be sold to willing customers that are costly for smaller firms to comply with. There may also be subsidies that have criteria that entrenched firms benefit from, but impose additional restrictions on how new firms can function.

Why would it be worthwhile to compete with a dairy cartel? Of all the things one can do with capital, why go to war with a cartel over relatively small margins? You're assuming also that the cartel is operating only "economically", not also, eg., bribing, blackmailing, (stealing, murdering, ...), ...potential competitors. Why not just invite any competitor into the cartel? Why not buy them out? Why not "make life dif…

> Why would it be worthwhile to compete with a dairy cartel? Of all the things one can do with capital, why go to war with a cartel over relatively small margins?

It may not be in Ontario. In a free market (i.e. one that respects property rights) it would be worthwhile. To see why, let me take your objections one by one.

Bribing competitors: The point of a cartel is to use force to prevent competition. Successful firms who are outcompeting their peers don't need to rely on force in this way, and enacting force is costly. The cost of the bribes must be factored into the cartels bottom line rendering them less efficient at meeting the market's needs. On the other hand the cartels inefficiencies require that the bribed competitors are leaving money on the table by taking the bribe instead of competing.

Blackmailing competitors: This supposes that you have some illegal or taboo information that can be used to blackmail competitors. This method of force will not work for any firms you cannot find dirt on. The cost of acquiring the blackmail is another source of inefficiency in the cartel at meeting the market's needs.

Stealing: Property rights are required in order to have a free market. Corrupt courts or enforcement of laws can prevent free markets from forming in the real world. Preventing corruption of these privileged offices is a difficult problem and could use more research.

Murdering: This is a special case of stealing as people own their own bodies so murder deprives them of their property.

> The underlying assumption that "things wash out" requires supposing that an extremely simplistic newtonian model of an economy where politics doesnt really occur.

I wasn't trying to say that "things wash out" no matter what. My point was that the circumstances surrounding monopolies affect their ability to prevent competition. It's easy to see that when an industry is doing well it attracts new competitors. Analyzing the reasons competitors are not able to compete in monopolized industries is the best way to understand how to prevent monopolies.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#427

Post by BobaFloutist »

phpisthebest wrote: post #421
BobaFloutist wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's actually developmentally inappropriate for teenagers to have that level of work ethic. A teenager has far too many things on their plate at school to dedicate that much of their energy and motivation to Walmart, even ignoring the cost to their social and cognitive development.

I 100% disagree, the coddling of the American mind is a huge problem and we continue to push out development in favor of these new age idea that "kids cant handle it" with the result that we now have an entire generation of Adult Children... Most college graduates likely could not pass a 8th grade exam from 100 years ago, the social cost of that is immense.

> the coddling of the American mind is a huge problem

Yeah I thought that book sucked too

> Most college graduates likely could not pass a 8th grade exam from 100 years ago

I highly doubt it, though we have no way to prove this one way or another. Maybe there'd be some like dates that we haven't memorized in modern times because priorities have changed, or some outdated home ec or shop practices.

Much more interesting is imagining a tween from 1924 trying to grapple with the advanced math and science (not to mention language skills) required to even take a modern AP class, let alone pass the exam.

But it's fine, it's developmentally appropriate for middle-aged and older men to find the days youths and teens lacking, your following in a time honored tradition of moral panics about how sure, we were idiots in our own special way, but these teens, these teens, are really something else, uniquely feckless in a way never before seen in history. Yes, every generation preceding mine has had this opinion, and has been soundly proven wrong, but, for the first time ever, we're right about it, and it just happens to be this generation of teens that is accurately described by the grumblings of old men, right when I want to start grumbling.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#429

Post by [deleted] »

crazygringo wrote: post #393
remram wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comparison added breaking and entering ! > And random line items added to a bill have nothing to do with this conversation Doesn't it? I'm sure employers withholding wages have some sort of itemized justification too.

Fine, they pickpocket you for $20 in the park. You're focusing on the wrong detail. My overall point is clear. You're wrong to say I'm being dishonest -- I was obviously trying to draw an equivalence. Pickpocketing is a better example, but I think my intention was clear.

[deleted]

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#430

Post by tristor »

HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #424
tristor wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is no worse than the demands beared by countless $12/hr general managers. That is grossly incorrect. Also, general managers don't make $12/hr. The average general manager in the US makes ~$87k/yr, and can be as high as $150k/yr, and depending on the specific industry you can end up with relatively sizeable compensation based on profit sharing and bonus structures. A general manager typically oversees a single…

Your reply is incorrect and inaccurate. Consider this an opportunity to improve, not double down.

HN is not the place to be a troll. If you have nothing of substance to add, please exit the conversation.
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