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Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

theguardian.com

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Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#391

Post by antisthenes »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #82
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is it worth the resentment from said employees? Having to deal with the revolving door of naive new staff that needs to be trained, get up to speed, then leaves again when they realize they're being stiffed or they can do better? It just doesn't feel sustainable. Not to mention the chance that you'll be found out by the authorities; I want to believe the punishment for wage theft is much more than the savings. Of…

It's worth it to the tune of $50 billion per year with only $3 billion recovered

It sounds like a lot, until you realize it's only roughly $30 per year per employee in the US (roughly).

There's no justification in being shitty to your fellow citizen over this paltry sum of money. None.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#392

Post by remram »

crazygringo wrote: post #382
remram wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the worst that happens is collections > (...) by visiting your home and stealing $20 from your wallet You are being dishonest here. Here's my version: If you withhold $20 from a bill payment, the worst that can happen is having to pay an extra fee, getting a utility shut off, and a permanent hit to your credit score. If you charge a customer an extra "service improvement fee" or "credit card surcharge" or a $400 "M…

> You are being dishonest here. That's entirely uncalled for. My point was clear and, yes, honest. Obviously there are additional complications in both directions. Yes, if you don't pay your electric bill of course it will eventually get shut off. But if an employer stops paying their employees they eventually quit. If you're late in paying there may be a fine. Courts also fine employers punitive amounts for non-paym…

Your comparison added breaking and entering!

> And random line items added to a bill have nothing to do with this conversation

Doesn't it? I'm sure employers withholding wages have some sort of itemized justification too.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#393

Post by crazygringo »

remram wrote: post #392
crazygringo wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are being dishonest here. That's entirely uncalled for. My point was clear and, yes, honest. Obviously there are additional complications in both directions. Yes, if you don't pay your electric bill of course it will eventually get shut off. But if an employer stops paying their employees they eventually quit. If you're late in paying there may be a fine. Courts also fine employers punitive amounts for non-paym…

Your comparison added breaking and entering ! > And random line items added to a bill have nothing to do with this conversation Doesn't it? I'm sure employers withholding wages have some sort of itemized justification too.

Fine, they pickpocket you for $20 in the park.

You're focusing on the wrong detail. My overall point is clear. You're wrong to say I'm being dishonest -- I was obviously trying to draw an equivalence. Pickpocketing is a better example, but I think my intention was clear.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#394

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

spamizbad wrote: post #9

This phenomena is pretty widespread in the service industry and I would venture to say that a significant minority of businesses participate in some version of wage theft. For example, one of my jobs right out of high school was waiting tables at a local restaurant. If you were opening, the expectation from owners and management was you'd get in early to help open but would wait 15 minutes before service started befo…

i think you are underestimating how competitive businesses are - someone knowing that a competitor is exploiting an illegal advantage , has all the incentive in the world to report that illegal business practice and shame that competitor.

You have to be operating in a very narrow niche or a very small community for illegal behavior to be the norm.

what most employees don't know is that this type of theft is often a smokescreen for theft by a manager or someone below ownership.

mention to owner anonymously, if no action, report the business that does this to you, put it on yelp, and move on.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#395

Post by castlecrasher2 »

autoexec wrote: post #346
castlecrasher2 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, and not sure why you're being downvoted for this.

Maybe because if you redefine things that aren't theft as theft you can make any number of things more prevalent than wage theft, or maybe because it confused paying someone late with paying someone never, or maybe because it equated people who are unable to pay due to not having enough money for their basic needs with corporations who most often have plenty of money and assets but still refuse to pay their employees…

I don't understand the chord this opinion strikes. Unless you're letting your personal bias get in the way, there's not a distinct difference between the two.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#396

Post by RHSeeger »

avgcorrection wrote: post #277
RHSeeger wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The true crime is as always the impact on businesses It's hard to tell if you meant this as sarcasm or not, but... it really is a big deal. If all your competitors are screwing their employees in order to increase their margins, that means they can out-compete your on price. Which means you can either screw _your_ employees.. or risk going out of business. And eventually, the only players left are the ones that are…

I’m absolutely being sarcastic. The context is that the OP complained about one business colluding with others by way of informal no-hire lists for employees that don’t tolerate this wage theft. The response to that is to focus on how other businesses that don’t collude will get out-competed… And yeah I’m pretty sick of this framing. It’s an anecdote where employees are direct victims, and then the focus gets shifted…

> And yeah I’m pretty sick of this framing. It’s an anecdote where employees are direct victims, and then the focus gets shifted to hypothetical and indirect victims (businesses).

No, the focus gets shifted to

> We need to make sure that businesses that _do_ treat their employees well are able to succeed. And, to do that, we make sure that treating their employees well isn't turned into a penalty. We make sure that all companies are playing by the same rules.

The thread went like this

>>> Businesses should not be able to steal wages from their employees, and we should punish them harshly

>> Yes, if businesses can get away with that, then the ones that treat workers well will go out of business

> (you) Stop making this about the business being a victim here

Seriously, what the heck. Everything about that bit of the thread was about making sure it's better for businesses to treat employees well.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#397

Post by mbostleman »

The article starts with a scenario from commercial construction in which pay to workers was delayed at times and some ultimately never collected. The commercial construction industry can be a risky environment. I spent some time in this supply chain and the monthly billing to the owner was always a nail biting experience similar to a rocket launch. Is every sub billing for the right amount of labor and materials? Do we have evidence that materials delivered but not installed are on site and secure, or did some of it grow legs over the weekend? How is the owner's liquidity? Are the business drivers that justified the investment (eg. tenants) still a go? Because if not, the financing will pull out.

While the Guardian likes to imply that the first company upstream of the workers is a thief, the reality is far more complex. There might be some dealings that could be called theft but, before you get to those, you'd have to remove all the dealings that involve a risky chain of transactions that failed somewhere along the line.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#398

Post by autoexec »

castlecrasher2 wrote: post #395
autoexec wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because if you redefine things that aren't theft as theft you can make any number of things more prevalent than wage theft, or maybe because it confused paying someone late with paying someone never, or maybe because it equated people who are unable to pay due to not having enough money for their basic needs with corporations who most often have plenty of money and assets but still refuse to pay their employees…

I don't understand the chord this opinion strikes. Unless you're letting your personal bias get in the way, there's not a distinct difference between the two.

If you can't find a difference between the walmart employee late on rent because he doesn't have enough money to pay it until friday comes around, and walmart who has literal billions in profits, but has been repeatedly caught stealing money from workers you'd have to be keeping your eyes shut. Zero personal bias is required to see that those situations aren't even close the same thing.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#400

Post by sleepybrett »

basil-rash wrote: post #380
sleepybrett wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live two blocks from that store (the ballard one which was shut down). It was the worst targeted store i've ever seen. It was about 1/3 'groceries' while sitting within a block of two larger and cheaper grocery stores. All the stock that people would actually be interested in, home goods and the like (because the neighborhood lacks a store for that), were extremely thin on the shelves. Either because they didn't st…

I lived in 65th for the first half of COVID, so I want to that Target moderately regularly. Yes Ballard Market had better groceries (among the best in Seattle actually), but I’ve never seen Target as a grocery store. For the home goods we needed it was adequate, though my roommates Amazon subscription had to fill in some gaps. To your point about it not having the items you needed, I wouldn’t be inclined to separate…

I'm not sure people are stealing a lot of shower caddies or little office/bathroom garbage cans...
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