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Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

theguardian.com

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Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#371

Post by ludwigDual »

mjburgess wrote: post #338
samatman wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cartels are a feature of free markets. I would argue that it's good for the state to take some sort of interest in regulating them, one of several ways that I'm not a free-market fundamentalist. But arguing that the formation of cartels makes a market non-free is backward. Cartels emerge through free association in trade. Regulating them might make for a more functional market, a more efficient market (or it might no…

A market isn't free if prices aren't set by supply and demand operating under the guarantees of free exchange given by states (ie., property rights, and the rest). A cartel sets prices, and is one of the many ways markets are unfree. There's a ton of confusion created by libertarian sorts who fail to distinguish between government regulation which sets prices, and regulation necessary for the operation of the market…

> A cartel sets prices, and is one of the many ways markets are unfree.

That's true, but cartels can't enforce this. New or external firms can compete with the cartel. If a cartel reduces production or raises prices then it incentivizes competitors to meet the market demand with lower prices. The only way the cartel can exclude new firms is by controlling the entirety of some resource or enforcing the cartel usually in the form of lobbying for regulations.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#372

Post by autoexec »

brightball wrote: post #115
dbingham wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole article is about how DOL mostly doesn't go to bat for people. Of $50 bil in wage theft, DOL recovered ~$3 bil.

Ultimately dealing with the DOL will hurt the employer financially, but the employee probably won’t see anything from it. The lawyers will though.

> Ultimately dealing with the DOL will hurt the employer financially

It looks like corporations make far more money stealing from workers than they'd ever lose in their dealings with the DOL. If enforcement were inevitable and fines high enough to actually hurt no company would ever dare steal from their employees, but because they do (and at such large scales) we know that they make more money from theft than they risk losing by stealing.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#373

Post by Philorandroid »

vundercind wrote: post #312
Philorandroid wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to interpret "We basically put a big flashing sign right out front saying whose interests are the top priority" as anything but distaste, just as it's hard to parse "the name “capitalism” states whose interests are favored in our system" as anything but a favorable verisimilitude. Whose capital? Construction contractors? Service industry bosses? How exactly are they favored? Clearly wage theft is a well-und…

> How is any of this unique to a capitalist system and prevented in, say, command economies? Social-capitalist economies (the “social democracies” and adjacent) tend to do better job at this particular thing. Unions are pretty damn effective at cutting down on employers failing to follow through on their obligations, for one thing, and other states do a better job of supporting and incubating those organizations, bes…

> MBIC

No need to start flinging poo.

> Social-capitalist economies (the “social democracies” and adjacent) tend to do better job at this particular thing.

Can you point to a social capitalist country that does a demonstrably better job as a direct result of being a social-capitalist/social democratic/democratic socialist policies? From a cursory search, the US shares in wage theft being a problem with the UK, Australia, Germany and Sweden (granted to a lesser extent for the last two), and I have no doubt a slew of others as well.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#374

Post by staticfish »

mrguyorama wrote: post #299
mrangle wrote: post #37

Slaving: Not paying for work. Internships: some may be legit, most are slave labor schemes with many being deeply institutionalized in systems such as healthcare and education. Lower than minimum wage with an expectation that tips will make up the difference (just be done with tipping, pay at least minimum wage, and raise food prices). Mistreatment

The tipping thing is insane. I live in a rather progressive city, very pro labor. Many local restaurants have added small fees to your bill, often called something like "living wage fee" or something similar, the implication being it's a fee to help improve the wages the staff get. Except it's a 3% fee! I'm paying $50 for steak, surely you can just freaking charge me $52 and pay the staff what they deserve?! Why all…

It's much more insidious than you let on. It's plain lying about the cost of the service (food in this case) so they get you in the door, then bait-and-switch you when you get the bill.

Just a hunch, but I'm guessing you live in Seattle. I've been noticing the same thing all over, and honestly it should be highly illegal.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#375

Post by wahnfrieden »

ludwigDual wrote: post #371
mjburgess wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A market isn't free if prices aren't set by supply and demand operating under the guarantees of free exchange given by states (ie., property rights, and the rest). A cartel sets prices, and is one of the many ways markets are unfree. There's a ton of confusion created by libertarian sorts who fail to distinguish between government regulation which sets prices, and regulation necessary for the operation of the market…

> A cartel sets prices, and is one of the many ways markets are unfree. That's true, but cartels can't enforce this. New or external firms can compete with the cartel. If a cartel reduces production or raises prices then it incentivizes competitors to meet the market demand with lower prices. The only way the cartel can exclude new firms is by controlling the entirety of some resource or enforcing the cartel usually…

In Ontario, the "dairy cartel" invaded the big name convenience stores and groceries and forcibly replaced product on the shelf with their own without repercussion

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#376

Post by chaosharmonic »

Worth noting that lawmakers in New York, where the focus of this piece is, recently unveiled a trio of bills[0] aimed at curtailing wage theft, effectively shutting down businesses that steal $1k or more from their employees.

[0] https://www.propublica.org/article/wage-theft-law-new-york-v...

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#377

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy »

When I was young my parents to my fathers employer to court for wage theft and won.

My mother always meticulously logged when my father clocked in and when he clocked out. All my life she did this.

At one employer they immediately noticed my father wasn't getting paid what he should be. So they let it rack up to a decent amount and took them to court. The judge took the years of time logs as proper documentation.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#378

Post by brightball »

autoexec wrote: post #372
brightball wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately dealing with the DOL will hurt the employer financially, but the employee probably won’t see anything from it. The lawyers will though.

> Ultimately dealing with the DOL will hurt the employer financially It looks like corporations make far more money stealing from workers than they'd ever lose in their dealings with the DOL. If enforcement were inevitable and fines high enough to actually hurt no company would ever dare steal from their employees, but because they do (and at such large scales) we know that they make more money from theft than they r…

It's not about the fines. It's about the cost of hiring attorneys to deal with the DOL complaint itself. I agree that scale matters though.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#379

Post by sixothree »

Jensson wrote: post #215
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to demonstrate to someone why the legal system is designed for the wealthy and not the common people, I don't think you can do better than the entire subject of wage theft. Wage theft utterly eclipses every other form of larceny in the United States at least, and it is practically legal in every way apart from the letter of the law. Few companies ever see any consequences at all, and the few that do, it's…

> Wage theft utterly eclipses every other form of larceny in the United States at least If you define being late with payments as theft, then I'd bet that rent theft is way larger than wage theft. I don't see why you would say that it is theft when you are late with payments to a worker but not theft when you are late with payments to a company. If being late with payments isn't theft, then "wage theft" isn't theft,…

If you're late with rent, the police will show up when called.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#380

Post by basil-rash »

sleepybrett wrote: post #343
basil-rash wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article proves nothing of the sort. Shutting down stores that have too much theft is a cost cutting measure, and keeping stores open that have more theft but far more sales doesn’t invalidate it.

I live two blocks from that store (the ballard one which was shut down). It was the worst targeted store i've ever seen. It was about 1/3 'groceries' while sitting within a block of two larger and cheaper grocery stores. All the stock that people would actually be interested in, home goods and the like (because the neighborhood lacks a store for that), were extremely thin on the shelves. Either because they didn't st…

I lived in 65th for the first half of COVID, so I want to that Target moderately regularly. Yes Ballard Market had better groceries (among the best in Seattle actually), but I’ve never seen Target as a grocery store. For the home goods we needed it was adequate, though my roommates Amazon subscription had to fill in some gaps. To your point about it not having the items you needed, I wouldn’t be inclined to separate that from the theft problem. If your stuff keeps getting stolen, you’ll be inclined to stock less stuff, especially if you don’t have sufficient sales to afford retrofitting locking cabinets everywhere and staffing sufficient to tend to them all.
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