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Sparkle: A software update framework for macOS

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Re: Sparkle: A software update framework for macOS

#61

Post by wingerlang »

dewey wrote: post #3

Maybe I‘m weird, but for some reason seeing a Sparkle „Update available“ modal popping up fils me with joy (The software I‘m using is getting better) and I enjoy reading the changelog. If there’s some weird custom updater in another software it always fills me with dread because I have to navigate a different UI, and probably have to restart it immediately.

I don't think that's weird, I enjoy those as well. So much so that I have a newsletter where I post changelogs of various apps that had updates in the past week (https://buttondown.email/appsandupdates). Adding apps is a slow process but I'm starting to see quite a bit of repeated apps so I'll have to speed it up.

Re: Sparkle: A software update framework for macOS

#62

Post by freedomben »

whalesalad wrote: post #42
freedomben wrote: post #36

[flagged]

You cannot possibly be serious? This is absolutely brilliant if it is sarcasm. Sparkle has been around for what feels like decades. It was around long before the app store even existed. It has been the defacto way to update apps for a long time. You have probably used it a half dozen times without realizing it.

Yes correct, this is not my opinion (at all, in fact I think the exact opposite). My goal was to take the same arguments that we get repeatedly from iOS and apply them to the Mac. In fact, I wrote it carefully without mentioning platform-specific things so that the exact same text could apply equally whether you were talking about the macOS or iOS.

I appreciate the compliment, but I mainly just aggregated and paraphrased the arguments I've been reading over the last several week :-)

Though I honestly approached it as an attempt at the Ideological Turing Test, not just as a sarcastic or underhanded way of scoring dumb rhetorical internet points. I genuinely am interested to understand why proponents of that viewpoint on iOS wouldn't carry that over to macOS?

Re: Sparkle: A software update framework for macOS

#63

Post by freedomben »

ZekeSulastin wrote: post #44
whalesalad wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot possibly be serious? This is absolutely brilliant if it is sarcasm. Sparkle has been around for what feels like decades. It was around long before the app store even existed. It has been the defacto way to update apps for a long time. You have probably used it a half dozen times without realizing it.

It’s an obvious strawman of arguments in favor of the iOS App Store.

It's not my serious argument, but it's not intended as a strawman. Please, I genuinely would like to know, why do those arguments apply to iOS but not to macOS? Where do you see a strawman in what I wrote?

Re: Sparkle: A software update framework for macOS

#64

Post by incanus77 »

I used to author two indie Mac apps ~15 years ago, right around when Sparkle came out. It was a joy to add to my projects, a model to learn about great Cocoa framework programming, and still is always pleasant for me as a user. Huge independent success story on the Mac.

Re: Sparkle: A software update framework for macOS

#65

Post by zacte »

snorremd wrote: post #55
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #22

Nowadays I just run `brew update; brew upgrade` and everything gets updated, including casks.

Exactly. It is so simple to do `brew install figma` or whatever App you want. Most bigger apps have ready casks to install. Then I have a startup job that does `brew bundle dump --file=- > $ICLOUD/Brewfile`. That way I get a backup list of all software installed with brew so it is simple to install again if I migrate to a new machine (without restoring a Time Machine backup). Edit: Obviously for users not familiar wi…

Raycast has an excellent extension to manage brew installs and upgrades without any cli on macs

Re: Sparkle: A software update framework for macOS

#66

Post by prmoustache »

alkonaut wrote: post #27
prmoustache wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK so basically the point is to avoid Mac App Store fees and independence to third party project like homebrew. Doesn't that leads to the situation on windows where every single app is phoning home at startup?

Usually the point of "software update frameworks" is to make the app phone home and check if there is an update isn't it? I mean you can have an option to not make it check for updates if you want to provide a privacy option for people, but that just makes it a manual click-to-check-for-updates. Most people would probably leave the "check for updates on start" checked. Can't see how that's a difference based on what…

>Can't see how that's a difference based on what OS you are on?

I have been a linux and openbsd user for the most part of the last 3 decades with only short stints on windows in a professionnal setting or when fixing up my partner's issues and nearly 0 experience of macOS apart from launching it in a VM out of curiosity 3 times so I was genuinely surprised and not aware of potential restrictions of app store. I know on windows there is the microsoft store + chocolatey that can handle apps updates (and possibly other projects?).

I have had the occasionnal java app installed in /opt from a tarball or an appimage but for me apps individually phoning home is more the exception than the norm. I usually have one process connecting to n repos, n being less than 5 usually and usually only when I am querying it manually. In recent years on Fedora I've let gnome software app connecring automatically and I guess with some flatpaks installed I am querying 2 flatpak repos (fedora +flathub) more but that's about it and most of our distro packages have telemetry and users counts disabled.

Re: Sparkle: A software update framework for macOS

#67

Post by _joel »

hbn wrote: post #34
belthesar wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For us technology slinging types, homebrew is indeed great. Sparkle updates are indeed fantastic for the average user however. I think I'd be interested in learning how many average users install software outside of the Mac App Store these days.

> I'd be interested in learning how many average users install software outside of the Mac App Store these days. I'd hazard a guess that Chrome alone would put that figure near 100%

I think you underestimate how many people use Safari.

Re: Sparkle: A software update framework for macOS

#68

Post by Hamuko »

stadeschuldt wrote: post #21
haykuro wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched to MacPorts after becoming tired of Brew tainting my filesystem. MacPorts keeps things clean in /opt/. https://www.macports.org/ https://saagarjha.com/blog/2019/04/26/thoughts-on-macos-pack...

Nowadays Homebrew keeps its stuff under /opt/homebrew/

Only if you have an ARM64 Mac. x86 still use the old path.

Re: Sparkle: A software update framework for macOS

#70

Post by hermitcrab »

I write software for Mac and Windows (in C++/Qt). I put each new release out as a separate application for the user to install. Is there some equivalent to Sparkle that runs on both Mac AND Windows, so I don't have to integrate a separate system on each OS?

Also I worry about update frameworks as way for bad guys to do bad things via my software. Should I be worried?

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