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Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

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Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#261

Post by _19qg »

somenameforme wrote: post #259
_19qg wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin lied about the motivation of Germany and failed to mention, that the Soviet Union itself invaded parts of Poland. Hitler's motivation was to conquer and enslave East Europe. Getting Danzig back was not the motivation. It was only a stepping stone. The Soviet Union itself worked together with Nazi Germany and attacked & invaded Poland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland and https://en.wikipe…

You might want to watch the interview. In that section Putin obviously mentioned that the USSR also invaded Poland. That's when Western Ukraine, which had been part of Poland, came back under 'Soviet' control! Which is, again, a rather critical part of relevant contemporary history. As Wiki puts it [1]: --- "The response of non-ethnic Poles to the situation caused considerable complications. Many Ukrainians, Belarusi…

The Soviet Union invaded Poland from the east and ruled there with terror, mass-killings and deportations. "back under soviet control" means that the SU was taking the opportunity to conquer parts of Poland in an undeclared war, working together with Nazi Germany. Sure that it also exploited local conflicts.

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#262

Post by lispm »

khzw8yyy wrote: post #248
belter wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whenever I hear "hard hitting" in modern times, I just think of a journalist digging up some random dirt to try to shock the interviewee with, using argumentative fallacies like strawmen, and just generally doing whatever they can to agitate the interviewee and get some sensational headline or emotional response. And there was none of that. > And there was none of that. Yeap, no questions on Bucha and who did such…

On the other hand, we've already heard all these stories and they are clearly very sticky. Getting a different angle was at least new.

What was new, given that Puting has given his history lectures many times before that interview?

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#263

Post by lispm »

somenameforme wrote: post #196
actionfromafar wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't sound like an interview at all, at least not a hard hitting interview with tough questions. More like a promotional tour for a new book or something.

Well it wasn't a "trap" interview, if that's what you mean. It also wasn't a "pr tour" type interview of the sort we have repeatedly given Zelensky. I think the thing it reminded me most of was the old school days of interviews with people like Larry King.

Putin has invaded the Ukraine. This "interview" was only a platform for him to explain his propaganda version of his motives, based on his skewed version of history. None of that was questioned. The reality is that he failed to conquer Ukraine in a few days, as he planned initially, and now is in a bloody war where he sacrifices the lives of hundreds of russians per day for his own personal goals. His troops kills and destroys in the Ukraine. His invasion is a huge catastrophe for him, for russia and especially for the ukraine. There is no justification for this and it can't be found in history.

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#264

Post by somenameforme »

_19qg wrote: post #261
somenameforme wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to watch the interview. In that section Putin obviously mentioned that the USSR also invaded Poland. That's when Western Ukraine, which had been part of Poland, came back under 'Soviet' control! Which is, again, a rather critical part of relevant contemporary history. As Wiki puts it [1]: --- "The response of non-ethnic Poles to the situation caused considerable complications. Many Ukrainians, Belarusi…

The Soviet Union invaded Poland from the east and ruled there with terror, mass-killings and deportations. "back under soviet control" means that the SU was taking the opportunity to conquer parts of Poland in an undeclared war, working together with Nazi Germany. Sure that it also exploited local conflicts.

You won't find too many arguments from me here. Stalin was the absolute embodiment of Machiavellianism, which I loathe with a passion like none other. The inevitability of people like him in politics are the reason I think overly centralized political systems are doomed to failure, sooner or later. Had he not been the main reason Nazism was defeated, I think his legacy, as colored as it already is, would have been very different. But, on the other hand, the importance of and the sacrifices suffered in the defeat of Nazism cannot be overstated.

Such is history that sometimes great people do awful things, and sometimes awful people do great things.

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#265

Post by _19qg »

somenameforme wrote: post #264
_19qg wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Soviet Union invaded Poland from the east and ruled there with terror, mass-killings and deportations. "back under soviet control" means that the SU was taking the opportunity to conquer parts of Poland in an undeclared war, working together with Nazi Germany. Sure that it also exploited local conflicts.

You won't find too many arguments from me here. Stalin was the absolute embodiment of Machiavellianism, which I loathe with a passion like none other. The inevitability of people like him in politics are the reason I think overly centralized political systems are doomed to failure, sooner or later. Had he not been the main reason Nazism was defeated, I think his legacy, as colored as it already is, would have been ve…

Nothing about the war in the Ukraine is great, not Putin, not the "things". There is only the will of the people of the Ukraine to defend their country. Putin was (and is) too dumb to see this.

Nothing about the war against Poland was great.

Putin is an aggressor and he even tried to justify his history view with Poland/Germany from 1939.

From the interview: "Hitler asked them to give it amicably, but they refused."

That's complete nonsense, Hitler had very different motives and Poland knew that it was not "amicably".

What is disturbing, is that Putin compares his own motives to attack the Ukraine to the German/Polish situation in 1939, where we see Putin siding in his arguments with Hitler. That's completely crazy.

Hitler had all staged this, back then, to conquer Poland and follow his long-term goals & plans (-> kill the jews, enslave east europe).

Putin reverses the attacker and the victim.

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#266

Post by mopsi »

somenameforme wrote: post #260
mopsi wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see no reason to call any of what I quoted an exaggeration. These are very well documented episodes, which barely scratch the surface when it comes to German and Russian crimes committed in Eastern Europe. The described actions were merely opening shots of WWII. The worst was yet to come. As to ethnic minorities in Russia: > And there's no marginalization or racial issues or whatever, at least nothing outside the n…

"On 19 June 2018, the Russian State Duma adopted a bill that made education in all languages but Russian optional, overruling previous laws by ethnic autonomies, and reducing instruction in minority languages to only two hours a week.[48][49][50] This bill has been likened by some commentators, such as in Foreign Affairs, to the policy of Russification.[48]" This is not really what I would call ethnic strife. I do ag…

> such a law obviously does not prevent people from using or learning their ethnic language

It is only one measure of many that is driving the rapid decline of indigenous peoples in Russia. Russia has a long history of methodical persecution of indigenous peoples with a wide arsenal that spans from closure of schools and suppression of media to made up charges about "extremism" and being a "foreign agent" to punitive psychiatry in the best Soviet traditions. Many languages and cultures have already become extinct like Native American tribes that were forced into conditions that caused a permanent loss of language, culture and identity. With official departure from the European Convention on Human Rights, the Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities, and other international treaties, Russia doesn't even bother to act like they care about human rights. The council that monitored how signatories enforced the framework convention used the same word in their reports about the situation of minorities as you did: marginalization, increasingly so.

And it's gotten much worse since Putin decided to invade Ukraine in 2022. Russia is now decimating indigenous populations by disproportionally conscripting them to die in Ukraine. Buryats and Nenets are overrepresented by a factor of 50 in casualties compared to ethnic Russians from Moscow. Two genocides for the price of one - trying to overwhelm Ukrainian defenders by throwing indigenous peoples from Russia at them.

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#267

Post by khzw8yyy »

lispm wrote: post #262
khzw8yyy wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, we've already heard all these stories and they are clearly very sticky. Getting a different angle was at least new.

What was new, given that Puting has given his history lectures many times before that interview?

This one was actually heard by a sizable audience?

The Western take is: look, Putin is avoiding talking about the current conflict and talks history instead. The Russian take is: look, Crimea changes hands once every 100 or so years, and this is just the latest iteration.

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#268

Post by khzw8yyy »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #250
khzw8yyy wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to clarify: the "we" who would like to join is a government that was installed by the USA in a coup. What kind of "attacking and oppressing" happened before the coup?

So Finland and Sweden have governments "installed by USA in a coup"?

That's just being obtuse to be obtuse. You and I both understand the difference between the choices that Finland or Sweden made and the "choices" that Ukraine or Iraq made.

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#269

Post by lispm »

khzw8yyy wrote: post #267
lispm wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was new, given that Puting has given his history lectures many times before that interview?

This one was actually heard by a sizable audience? The Western take is: look, Putin is avoiding talking about the current conflict and talks history instead. The Russian take is: look, Crimea changes hands once every 100 or so years, and this is just the latest iteration.

> This one was actually heard by a sizable audience?

So, the content is the same? An aggressor trying to justify his aggression by his version of history?

> The Russian take is: look, Crimea changes hands once every 100 or so years, and this is just the latest iteration.

Putin was not going after Crimea, he was going to "free" the whole Ukraine in a few days (the "special operation") and then beyond. That's what he sold the Russian people. Too bad, his troops were defeated while on their way to Kiev. Now his troops are fighting a bloody war and Russia is isolated in Europe. Countries are joining NATO instead. Putin has achieved to unite most of Europe, unfortunately without and against him.

The Russia public lives in the propaganda bubble of an aggressive regime. There are no flights to much of Europe, few trains, borders are closed, ...

There Russian take is that the evil West is responsible and the reason why its now hard to get all the good things..., but is it worth for them to die for an outdated version of an imperialistic history, where Putin is a czar?

Putin, the emperor with no clothes.

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#270

Post by justsomehnguy »

d1sxeyes wrote: post #244
justsomehnguy wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you took a good look at the globe? Especially centered on the Russian capital and tilted 30 CW.

I don’t understand what point you think you’re making.

Because you didn't look at the globe.
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