Live data from Hacker News

Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

sfgate.com

411–420 of 750 posts

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone can't follow traffic laws, they shouldn't be on the road (regardless of mode of transportation)

Insisting that a bicycle needs to follow the same procedures as a 3000lb internal combustion engine driven vehicle is madness. The vast majority of car laws are completely inappropriate for bicycles. Bicycles are much smaller, go much slower, can stop much faster, etc.

[flagged]

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO these are a slightly fake stat. You're comparing to overall stats, that include the drunk, the high, the sleep deprived, and the crazy wild aggressive wreckless. If you compare to my mother driving, the injuries per mile are higher in autonomous. You can argue that I'm making an unfair distinction since those people exist, but I'd say the people driving under those conditions are commiting a crime and shouldn't b…

You're in the write direction but I think you don't have the right words to describe what you're trying to describe. I made a sister comment, but if I correctly understand you, then it would be more accurate to say that the averaged statistic removes important variables for making accurate conclusions. We need not look at your mother, but we can consider different environments. I think most of us would say it would b…

> why you should be suspicious when anyone discusses averages

I like to say that the average human being has one testicle and half a vagina, which is not very representative of anyone around.

> On that note, the median and average are always within one standard deviation of another

Oh really? That's cool.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO these are a slightly fake stat. You're comparing to overall stats, that include the drunk, the high, the sleep deprived, and the crazy wild aggressive wreckless. If you compare to my mother driving, the injuries per mile are higher in autonomous. You can argue that I'm making an unfair distinction since those people exist, but I'd say the people driving under those conditions are commiting a crime and shouldn't b…

You're making a classic is-ought fallacy here. Drunk, high, sleep deprived or "crazy wild aggressive reckless" human drivers ought not to exist, but they do, and thus it's absolutely fair to compared autonomous drivers against them.

In no possible future would we see an immediate change from human drivers to 100% self-driving, so self-driving ought to co-exist with human drivers, both the better than average, and the drunk ones.

I’m absolutely not convinced that an AI would fair better at handling a drunk driver’s driving style compared to a competent human. The statistics help AI due to them being good at handling monotony, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to safety in complex situations.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#415
post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean laws that forbid pedestrians from crossing roads? It’s just a matter of where you put your priorities. Here we prioritize our bike based transportation. Drivers just have to be careful, also insurance is obligatory so drivers don’t really feel it financially. They just pay collectively for all the other traffic participants they hit. We have a very different system, nobody goes bankrupt from causing an accid…

I am a cyclist myself, and let me tell you... cyclists are the fucking worst. Many of them drive so recklessly, like going full-speed through an intersection while their traffic light is red. There is just no way in many cases for a car driver to avoid hitting such idiots, no matter how much attention they pay. Neither cars nor bicycles can just stop on a whim, they need a couple meters to do so.

That is a US perspective. We don't have "cyclists" everybody uses a bike from time to time, our infrastructure is build for it [0], and when you get your driver’s license your learn how to deal with it.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynwMN3Z9Og8

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#416
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"> I live adjacent to a four-way stop and there's an incident where a cyclist fails to yield nearly hourly. You can blame the cyclist or perhaps a four-way stop with a nearly hourly cyclist incident needs to be redesigned." Or, bear with me here, just maybe the cyclists failing to yield is kind of the big issue here?

No it’s not. AB122 passed the legislature to legalize the California roll for cyclists, because coming to a full stop at a stop sign makes no sense for riders with high visibility. Newsom vetoed it for stupid culture war reasons. It’s a law that doesn’t make sense so it’s not a big issue if it isn’t followed.

California roll != failure to yield. I swear some in here would argue water isn’t wet and the sky isn’t blue…

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO these are a slightly fake stat. You're comparing to overall stats, that include the drunk, the high, the sleep deprived, and the crazy wild aggressive wreckless. If you compare to my mother driving, the injuries per mile are higher in autonomous. You can argue that I'm making an unfair distinction since those people exist, but I'd say the people driving under those conditions are commiting a crime and shouldn't b…

But one of the points of self-driving cars is to remove those bad drivers from the driving seat.

How? There will be multiple decades of self-driving — human driver co-existence. I’m not convinced that this phase would be safer than the human-only one, as AI might very well handle bad human drivers much worse (as it is an edge case).

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#418
post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m happy that in the Netherlands it’s ALWAYS the car driver’s responsibility (she always pays).

No, that is absolute bullshit. So so often, it is obviously the reckless cyclist's fault.

That's a US perspective you have a car-first culture. If you have a bike first infrastructure you wouldn't talk like that. Here Bikes and cars are often even on different roads, where they need to cross, it's made very clear how that will work (traffic lights, clear lanes).

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#419

I'm disappointed in all the folks immediately blaming the cyclist without further information, and I'm similarly disappointed in all the folks blaming Waymo for the same reason. But, unless they somehow have extra information we're not privy to, I'm much more disappointed in the S.F. Supervisor quoted in the article, Shamann Walton, for immediately going online to say "so much for safety." Us internet weenies are alw…

I'm disappointed with all the folks like you who blame no one but an SF employee
Post reply on HN