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Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

theprivacydad.com

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Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#161

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

xethos wrote: post #144
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This article advocates for Linux (Chromebook is already Linux) Because Chromebook is Linux kernel + Google proprietary ecosystem & spyware. When advocates say Linux they just mean the FOSS distros of Linux + FOSS software.

When advocates say Linux they unironically (and sometimes unknowingly) mean GNU+Linux. This typically means a standard image the school can manage that has reasonable device management, with a company they can pay, and that their in-house IT can contact for support when the unexpected, unforseeable issues happen. I have yet to hear one suggest ChromeOS or any Android tablet; those run the Linux kernel, but don't (AFA…

So we all know what we're talking about, but the terminology is actually messy because ChromeOS is a GNU/Linux system; AFAIK it's using GNU coreutils, glibc, and a fair bit of other software pulled straight from the packages provided by gentoo (from which ChromeOS derives). This is a notable contrast to Android, which indeed replaced coreutils with busybox and then toybox, and uses its own bionic libc and custom userland.

I tentatively lean towards calling it "desktop Linux", or perhaps "user-controlled Linux" since that's rather the important part.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#162

Post by jon-wood »

hilbert42 wrote: post #146
jon-wood wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi. I had fairly severe dyslexia (and it turns out undiagnosed ADHD) in school, I could read fine, but handwriting in particular was hideously slow, to the point where I wasn't able to actually learn much because I was spending all my time laboriously writing things out. Once my parents persuaded the school to let me use an electronic word processor (I hesitate to call it a laptop by modern standards) for anything th…

"...dyslexia (and it turns out undiagnosed ADHD) in school," "...for anything that involved writing it made the world of difference." No doubt what you say is true but it's odd as research has shown that using a keyboard requires additional cognition and thus usually more is learned when taking handwritten notes specifically because it's less mentally taxing. If I recall there was research to this effect on an HN sto…

The bit I forgot to mention here was that alongside all that my parents were incredibly diligent in making sure I learnt how to touch type at the same time, which I can't thank them enough for. That means that I can write without thinking about the mechanical action of doing so at all, which was never the case for handwriting.

Possibly given sufficient focus on practicing handwriting that would have worked as well but several years of near constant handwriting in school never got to that point, while 30-60 minutes a day of practice at typing had me able to beat the speed I could handwrite at within a month or two.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#163

Post by theprivacydad »

liveoneggs wrote: post #103

This article advocates for Linux (Chromebook is already Linux) on refurbished hardware (a random mix of old laptops in a large-scale deployment lol) and a laundry list of other "technology solutions" which would be, obviously, impossible for a school system to smoothly maintain or even deploy. I'm not sure privacydad has ever deployed or maintained an IT department. A school system is very complex. For what they offe…

> refurbished hardware (a random mix of old laptops in a large-scale deployment lol)

On the refurbished laptop market, I see large amounts of the same series of laptops, often Thinkpads, for example. I assume this is because companies will replace entire collections of hardware dated for their purposes. I don't think it is too far-fetched to connect this market to schools in individual districts.

> a laundry list of other "technology solutions" which would be, obviously, impossible for a school system to smoothly maintain or even deploy.

See: https://nextcloud.com/blog/keep-your-data-in-your-school-use...

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#164

Post by theprivacydad »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #161
xethos wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When advocates say Linux they unironically (and sometimes unknowingly) mean GNU+Linux. This typically means a standard image the school can manage that has reasonable device management, with a company they can pay, and that their in-house IT can contact for support when the unexpected, unforseeable issues happen. I have yet to hear one suggest ChromeOS or any Android tablet; those run the Linux kernel, but don't (AFA…

So we all know what we're talking about, but the terminology is actually messy because ChromeOS is a GNU/Linux system; AFAIK it's using GNU coreutils, glibc, and a fair bit of other software pulled straight from the packages provided by gentoo (from which ChromeOS derives). This is a notable contrast to Android, which indeed replaced coreutils with busybox and then toybox, and uses its own bionic libc and custom user…

> user-controlled linux

Thanks, I will change that in the article. I appreciate your feedback

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#165

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

theprivacydad wrote: post #164
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we all know what we're talking about, but the terminology is actually messy because ChromeOS is a GNU/Linux system; AFAIK it's using GNU coreutils, glibc, and a fair bit of other software pulled straight from the packages provided by gentoo (from which ChromeOS derives). This is a notable contrast to Android, which indeed replaced coreutils with busybox and then toybox, and uses its own bionic libc and custom user…

> user-controlled linux Thanks, I will change that in the article. I appreciate your feedback

Glad it was useful:)

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#167

Post by theprivacydad »

a321neo wrote: post #24

Public sector IT in Denmark has been in a weird tug of war between those eager to sell out our data to American companies and those who naively think Ubuntu and LibreOffice can realistically replace the public sector's dependency on Microsoft. We need to keep our data in Denmark and become less dependent on American companies (and especially Microsoft/Google). But the change needs to be led by IT professionals who ca…

I went from teaching in a Google environment to teaching in a Microsoft environment this year.

Though Google now feels familiar and relatively easy (though try moving documents from one folder to another online...), I'd almost forgotten that when it was first introduced, it was met with a lot of resistance, and teachers and students alike were confused for years.

Microsoft spaces (Teams, Edge) are far, far worse.

Since the schools I've worked at run their own servers locally, I think using Nextcloud as your main platform should be very doable. The apps you can install are mostly very slick and modern. (I use Talk for calls now, for example). https://nextcloud.com/blog/keep-your-data-in-your-school-use...

I see the point about the clunkiness of LibreOffice. But as a teacher, I see great value in thinking carefully about what you introduce students to, because once a decision is in place, the effect multiplies with each new cohort of students.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#168

Post by xigoi »

jongjong wrote: post #142
liveoneggs wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire discussion is about how cloud apps are illegal for children because of GDPR

GDPR is dumb. All government regulations are dumb. The only regulation that works is self-regulation. The way to ensure that companies self-regulate is by punishing them (directors and shareholders) harshly whenever they cause harm or damage.

Who is going to punish them if there are no regulations?

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#169

Post by xethos »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #161
xethos wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When advocates say Linux they unironically (and sometimes unknowingly) mean GNU+Linux. This typically means a standard image the school can manage that has reasonable device management, with a company they can pay, and that their in-house IT can contact for support when the unexpected, unforseeable issues happen. I have yet to hear one suggest ChromeOS or any Android tablet; those run the Linux kernel, but don't (AFA…

So we all know what we're talking about, but the terminology is actually messy because ChromeOS is a GNU/Linux system; AFAIK it's using GNU coreutils, glibc, and a fair bit of other software pulled straight from the packages provided by gentoo (from which ChromeOS derives). This is a notable contrast to Android, which indeed replaced coreutils with busybox and then toybox, and uses its own bionic libc and custom user…

There really is no good term; GNU+Linux includes ChromeOS (TIL) and excludes Alpine (and derivatives like PostmarketOS), "Desktop" doesn't jive with Mobian (for Linux mobile devices), and "Linux" includes Android.

User-controlled might be the best I've seen so far, which is really saying something - all it's missing is what happens when it's issued (and administered) by a school or other org.

Now I'm gonna be rolling around phrases like "libre-encouraging Linux" in my head the next few days.

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