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Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

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Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#131

Post by ghaff »

scythe wrote: post #85
caldarons wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who went to a high school (Italy) where in the first two years each student had a laptop they could use in the classroom, I agree that having a computer per student is a bad idea. In my experience, what ended up happening was that pupils who already knew their way around a computer didn't really get any extra benefit from using cmputers in the classroom and those who didn't like using computers hated it ev…

I think a lot of it started because of one of the better intended projects — the One Laptop Per Child movement that tried to give laptops to kids in poor countries. A key premise was that a laptop could be cheaper than all of the textbooks normally required, so the whole thing was really saving money. But envy is one of the most powerful forces in politics, even when it doesn't make sense. So the idea that children i…

The idea of using electronics in classrooms to help education long predated OLPC. Obviously it took different forms but it has a very long (and mostly not very happy) history.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#132

Post by saalweachter »

art3m wrote: post #101

From the point of Google, what's the point of collecting students data?

> Meanwhile, Camilla Ley Valentin, the Director of DI Digital, the lobby organisation representing IT businesses in Denmark, posted this response from the side of the tech companies:

> "But I cannot help but wonder about the decision that has landed. Because in this case, we are not talking about sensitive data relating to the individual child, which is used, for example, for marketing."

> "The case concerns pseudonymized and aggregated usage data, such as data to measure a browser's performance or data to assess whether a button in a digital solution works better if it is green rather than blue."

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#133

Post by ParetoOptimal »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #86
a321neo wrote: post #24

Public sector IT in Denmark has been in a weird tug of war between those eager to sell out our data to American companies and those who naively think Ubuntu and LibreOffice can realistically replace the public sector's dependency on Microsoft. We need to keep our data in Denmark and become less dependent on American companies (and especially Microsoft/Google). But the change needs to be led by IT professionals who ca…

> But the change needs to be led by IT professionals who care about usability and know better than forcing Linux and LibreOffice down the throat of elderly office workers. I say there's a fair bit wrong in that sentence that needs unpacking: Sadly, most schools do not have "IT professionals". They get the person who knew a bit about computers and rose into the role - often by attending a few week-long Microsoft train…

> We need to get more real IT professionals in to schools, those who have professional chartered status and observe codes of ethical practice such as those the BCS advocate.

Pay is too low compared to what they can get elsewhere.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#134

Post by whywhywhywhy »

kergonath wrote: post #77
happytiger wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.

> If anything, schools are failing profoundly in preparing kids for a technological world. This argument is often made (and also wrt preparing pupils for their professional life). I don’t think it the reasons you imply are right. The problem is that nothing they could use now in school will prepare them for what they will need to use in the future. The software, tools and devices they will need will change as technol…

> Yes, Chromebooks are terrible. They are actually a hindrance more than anything else.

School budgets for student laptops cap out around $300 and they get cheaper if they're able to. It's a challenge to build a quality device at that price point, even more of a challenge to actually make money doing so.

This isn't an argument schools should have more money, they have plenty and some of the areas with terrible performance are spending a fortune a year per student, more a criticism of where that money is going if this is the tool they're supposed to learn with and it's not being spent there.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#135

Post by oesexe »

ho_schi wrote: post #37
throwaway71271 wrote: post #7

Schools+laptops is absolutely crazy. The amount of incompetence is beyond reason. My daughter(12)'s keyboard got broken, now she is afraid she wont be able to take her exam with an external keyboard because there is a spyware extension they use called 'safe exam browser' that might block her computer when she plugs the keyboard. Most of the kids are just using it to snapchat during class. I will honestly prefer to ju…

As far as I know Sweden is rolling back[1]large parts of the digitalization at schools. Not just because of cloud usage, maintenance and incompetence. The digital devices harm learning. Sweden will spend 60 million for reintroducing actual books, focus on actual reading and writing (important for learning and motoric ability). I’m not surprised. While I’m sceptic about many positions of Manfred Spitzer [2] (Universit…

Yesterday the Danish Minister of Education went on screen to tell everybody he will try and help the schools reduce the use of screens and electronics.

He wants handwriting and books back in the classrooms.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#136

Post by Moldoteck »

delfinom wrote: post #28
Moldoteck wrote: post #17

Nice, now force some linux distro like ubuntu and also ban microsoft&adobe software too

So is there going to be a mandate to throw money at every open source project used or are we going to be useless leeches?

Will be nice if such a fund would exist. On the other hand I really dislike how you tried to insult the users of free opensource projects by naming them useless leeches...

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#137

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

mikej1000 wrote: post #68
throwaway71271 wrote: post #7

Schools+laptops is absolutely crazy. The amount of incompetence is beyond reason. My daughter(12)'s keyboard got broken, now she is afraid she wont be able to take her exam with an external keyboard because there is a spyware extension they use called 'safe exam browser' that might block her computer when she plugs the keyboard. Most of the kids are just using it to snapchat during class. I will honestly prefer to ju…

I think they're a problem in universities too. I'm sure I've seen research that suggests students in lectures who take notes on paper get better grades that students who use laptops in lectures.

Yeah, I took lecture notes directly onto microscopic crib sheets that helped me cheat during the exams. Greatly improved my grades.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#138

Post by steve1977 »

glimshe wrote: post #6

What's the problem with our children doing the entirety of their learning in a data collection box that aims to bombard them with advertisement and get them used to an ecosystem for lifelong ad targeting? Now seriously, if Chromebooks didn't exist, couldn't you imagine a Black Mirror episode around this very theme?

I find the idea that our children are supposedly doing the entirety of their learning in a school just as worthy of a Black Mirror episode…

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#139

Post by jon-wood »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #11
throwaway71271 wrote: post #7

Schools+laptops is absolutely crazy. The amount of incompetence is beyond reason. My daughter(12)'s keyboard got broken, now she is afraid she wont be able to take her exam with an external keyboard because there is a spyware extension they use called 'safe exam browser' that might block her computer when she plugs the keyboard. Most of the kids are just using it to snapchat during class. I will honestly prefer to ju…

> Schools + laptops Are there any believable success story for this from involved people (= students+teachers+parents)?

Hi. I had fairly severe dyslexia (and it turns out undiagnosed ADHD) in school, I could read fine, but handwriting in particular was hideously slow, to the point where I wasn't able to actually learn much because I was spending all my time laboriously writing things out. Once my parents persuaded the school to let me use an electronic word processor (I hesitate to call it a laptop by modern standards) for anything that involved writing it made the world of difference.

As a happy side effect it also had a BASIC interpreter, which I would absolutely use to distract myself in boring lessons. I've been a professional software developer more or less since I left school. Not sure what the lesson is there... give kids laptops but only allow text editors and compilers?

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#140

Post by throwaway71271 »

jon-wood wrote: post #139
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Schools + laptops Are there any believable success story for this from involved people (= students+teachers+parents)?

Hi. I had fairly severe dyslexia (and it turns out undiagnosed ADHD) in school, I could read fine, but handwriting in particular was hideously slow, to the point where I wasn't able to actually learn much because I was spending all my time laboriously writing things out. Once my parents persuaded the school to let me use an electronic word processor (I hesitate to call it a laptop by modern standards) for anything th…

> give kids laptops but only allow text editors and compilers

one commander x16 per child :)

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