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More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

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Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#231

Post by nixgeek »

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #33
rossdavidh wrote: post #3

I do get the impression that the current Boeing CEO is attempting to turn the culture around, to a more "admit the problem and fix it" kind of attitude. The problem is that, if you are doing this after many years of "deny the problem and ship it", the number of apparent problems is actually going to go up for a while. I wonder if Boeing's customers and shareholders will have enough patience for him to complete the tr…

I said this in a previous thread, a QA/QC/SOP firm either has a culture where nobody would dare violate SOP or it doesn’t. It’s not about “admitting” a problem, they already have the SOPs and inspection protocols that reveal defects and proscribe ways to identify, document and address any defect. But as the QA guys where I work say, they are a cost center. There are two real questions here, can Boeing strictly follow…

I wonder if we’ll see Boeing split and keep its more successful Defense business “closer to the vest” and spin out the commercial airplane business?

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#232

Post by lupusreal »

7952 wrote: post #200
randmeerkat wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Building airplanes it a bit like running a restaurant... it's a business no sane person would willingly go in to. Other people with a similar perspective about rockets tried to convince Musk that as well. Thankfully he didn’t listen. You’re never going to realize gains that surpass the return on the S&P if you don’t take risks in business.

Maybe the secret sauce is to not build a rocket company at all. You build a Mars Exploration company that gives people a purpose and objective beyond just money. A company where quality/efficiency/price have a direct benefit to a broader mission.

It's a rocket company that tells people it's a Mars exploration company.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#233

Post by nimish »

mayneack wrote: post #66
rossdavidh wrote: post #3

I do get the impression that the current Boeing CEO is attempting to turn the culture around, to a more "admit the problem and fix it" kind of attitude. The problem is that, if you are doing this after many years of "deny the problem and ship it", the number of apparent problems is actually going to go up for a while. I wonder if Boeing's customers and shareholders will have enough patience for him to complete the tr…

For what it's worth, in "Flying Blind", the book written about the first round of 737 max issues, the author has a pretty negative outlook on Calhoun as being mostly aligned with Muilenburg. > Robison, however, finds little reason for optimism. While Boeing has now accepted responsibility for one of the crashes as part of a settlement, no one at the company besides Forkner has been charged with a crime. Muilenburg wa…

> Jack Welch protégé

At this point pre-emptively firing any Jack Welch associated executive would probably be a good idea

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#234

Post by lupusreal »

zimpenfish wrote: post #212
randmeerkat wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Musk is an interesting standards bearer for sanity. Think what you will about Musk, but SpaceX has completely revolutionized space travel and will be in the history books a hundred years from now.

> SpaceX [...] will be in the history books a hundred years from now As will Theranos. That's not really a great indicator of how good or useful something is.

Inane comparison, SpaceX will be in the history books because their rockets demonstrably work. They've already beaten every other rocket organization on the planet, including the state-run ones.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#235

Post by wolverine876 »

roody15 wrote: post #93

I cannot help but get the feeling that Boeing woes are like a canary in a coal mine for larger structural issues in the US government as a whole. Too much effort is put into spin, public relations and propaganda instead of actual just getting things done.

Wouldn't it be the canary in the corporate coal mine rather than the government coal mine? The corporation screwed up; the government is making them fix it, at an extreme level of completeness and correctness.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#236

Post by dylan604 »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #217
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any of that happens at the supervisor or mid-level manager level and should be taken to HR. By complying with bullying, the employees are not only committing a federal crime, they also risk being debarred by the FAA. That means they no longer work in the Aviation Industry.

HR retaliates frequently

Yeah, I'm not sure why people think that HR does not behave as instructed by leadership

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#237

Post by ken47 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #6
rossdavidh wrote: post #3

I do get the impression that the current Boeing CEO is attempting to turn the culture around, to a more "admit the problem and fix it" kind of attitude. The problem is that, if you are doing this after many years of "deny the problem and ship it", the number of apparent problems is actually going to go up for a while. I wonder if Boeing's customers and shareholders will have enough patience for him to complete the tr…

Boeing needs to dump the CEO and install someone from an engineering lineage if they want to build their reputation back. An engineering company run by a longtime manager with a background in accounting is in large part how Boeing got here. Fire the guy and get someone with a technical background in there.

Boeing apparently can't withstand the immense quarterly financial scrutiny it is under without making dangerous engineering trade offs. Time to take the company private?

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#238

Post by Gibbon1 »

cduzz wrote: post #229
Gibbon1 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even accounting driven. It's MBA driven. Accounts ask how much things cost and go from there. MBA's figure out how much things need to cost to make their spreadsheet work and tell you that's what you get. Which is what happened at Boeing. They told the engineers they were going to develop the 787 for half the cost of previous models (we are very very smart). And it took twice as long and cost twice as much. Given…

The point of the 737max was that it was a brownfield design which wouldn't require recertification by airlines of all the pilots who are certified for 737min planes. A 7B7 greenfield narrow body plane would probably have been faster to design and a better plane in lots of "don't lie to the pilot and fly into the ground when a sensor is busted" ways, but would have required all airlines to re-certify their pilots, whi…

The MAX cost the airlines more than recertification would have.

So the MBA's cost the stockholders money there too.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#240

Post by bluejellybean »

sandworm101 wrote: post #230
Syonyk wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why? The CEO of a company this big, no matter their background, has no business building an intimate understanding of the tech. This is certainly a point of contention in modern schools of business thought, but the concept of a CEO who doesn't understand what the company builds is bizarre to me. The CEO of Boeing, IMO, should probably have aircraft engineering experience, and, ideally, also be a pilot with the suit…

>> also be a pilot with the suitable type ratings to fly the stuff they build. Why the pilot? When it comes to handling these machines, the pilots are one small corner. I would think that someone with experience keeping them safe and functional would be more on point these days. How about someone with the ratings for maintaining the machines? No pilot has ever inspected let alone installed a door plug.

> No pilot has ever inspected let alone installed a door plug.

Guess we run in different circles!

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