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Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

theguardian.com

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Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#171

Post by Fradow »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #157
Fradow wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the sentiment was "it will be a landslide in favour" (like the electric scooters). It indeed wasn't, but still went in the expected way. People visiting Paris were not polled, only Parisians were, that's why I only explained this point of view. But yes it does benefit everyone that doesn't visit Paris in a SUV. Note that it also impacts Parisians with a SUV when they are parking outside of their resident…

>the sentiment was "it will be a landslide in favour" Source? I voted and like many people in circles and voting center, I didn't share that sentiment.

Here is a news article talking about that (in French) from before the vote was done: https://www.francetvinfo.fr/france/ile-de-france/venir-a-par...

Key part translation: "According to a poll, 61% of Parisians support the implementation of parking pricing based on the weight of the vehicle".

This tweet is quoted in the news: https://twitter.com/franckboisselet/status/17526758926927016... Translation: "What's the point of organizing an expensive vote on SUVs where everyone agrees."

Seeing as some arrondissements were very much against that change, it's not hard to find anecdotas of places where the sentiment is against it.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#172

Post by kergonath »

cpursley wrote: post #31
cpursley wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs in Europe and the US are on the downward trend at the moment. I’m not entirely sure why, maybe they are still too expensive.

For the downvoters, look it up - this is objectively true and has been well reported. And I’m not saying don’t buy an electric car, just that EV sales have decreased.

“Look it up” is not a good way to make a point. If you are making the claim, then you need to substantiate it.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#173

Post by kergonath »

cpursley wrote: post #107
pjc50 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the absolute sales and percentage of sales is up, it's just the rate of acceleration that's decreased. https://www.ev-volumes.com/

This literally has sections labeled “Lower European Expectations” and “North American fall”.

Yes. Poor reporting is incredibly common and most journalists seem to have no clue about the difference between a first and a second derivatives. See also, most articles about the economy.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#174

Post by cpursley »

kergonath wrote: post #172
cpursley wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the downvoters, look it up - this is objectively true and has been well reported. And I’m not saying don’t buy an electric car, just that EV sales have decreased.

“Look it up” is not a good way to make a point. If you are making the claim, then you need to substantiate it.

I dropped some links into several comments. Should I for every single response? Look it up.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#175

Post by Arnt »

_heimdall wrote: post #140
strawberryfie wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s interesting that new legislation is baking in the idea that more “sustainable” cars can weigh a lot more. Disappointing that this means we won’t tackle the other externalities of personal motorised transport including size, safety and visibility issues, wear on public infrastructure, and sheer amount of extra material people use to get themselves around.

I think the idea is that batteries can make the car more dense. Their concern was larger vehicles not fitting in parking spaces, allowing more weight in an EV makes sense in that case. It is interesting that they went with weight as a proxy for size though. I expect the process for charging by weight or dimensions would come down to a list of oversized vehicle models, why abstract it a layer rather than a max width/l…

That might just be tradition. Driving license classes also use weight as a proxy.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#176

Post by strawberryfie »

_heimdall wrote: post #140
strawberryfie wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s interesting that new legislation is baking in the idea that more “sustainable” cars can weigh a lot more. Disappointing that this means we won’t tackle the other externalities of personal motorised transport including size, safety and visibility issues, wear on public infrastructure, and sheer amount of extra material people use to get themselves around.

I think the idea is that batteries can make the car more dense. Their concern was larger vehicles not fitting in parking spaces, allowing more weight in an EV makes sense in that case. It is interesting that they went with weight as a proxy for size though. I expect the process for charging by weight or dimensions would come down to a list of oversized vehicle models, why abstract it a layer rather than a max width/l…

And bigger. For any particular fuel range of interest, an ICE drivetrain is smaller than a battery one.

But yes, I agree that weight as a proxy for size is ridiculous.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#177

Post by strawberryfie »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #142
strawberryfie wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s interesting that new legislation is baking in the idea that more “sustainable” cars can weigh a lot more. Disappointing that this means we won’t tackle the other externalities of personal motorised transport including size, safety and visibility issues, wear on public infrastructure, and sheer amount of extra material people use to get themselves around.

They are more "dense" rather than necessarily larger.

For comparable driving ranges, EVs are necessarily larger than ICE cars.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#178

Post by nox101 »

kergonath wrote: post #135
nox101 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people claim it was regulation that caused SUVs https://www.capitalone.com/cars/learn/finding-the-right-car/... Hopefully new regulation will fix it rather than make it worse

Certainly not in Europe, where things like pickup trucks and light trucks were exceedingly rare and there was no such regulation loophole.

I think some might say it started in the USA and was then brought to Europe after. Many things are introduced in one country and once successful the companies try to expand their market to other countries

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#179

Post by reacharavindh »

okuntilnow wrote: post #134
reacharavindh wrote: post #126

When I told my wife this, her immediate reaction was - “oh no, the families with 2 or more children that needs a bigger car will be penalized because of the SUVs driven by those who don’t need it”. And I said may be this is a two birds one stone moment. Give out SUV passes to those families with 2 or more children, and make it absurdly expensive for the rest. This way either you help increase the birth rate in EU or…

Is an SUV needed for two children? I can accommodate my two children (and the dog if required) in my smallish hatchback.

Me too. But, when we drive to my in-laws, NL -> Austria and back, we inevitably bring more stuff with us. I’m not going to rent a car three times a year while still owning a hatchback, and paying insurance and taxes for it.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#180

Post by WirelessGigabit »

Fradow wrote: post #75

This article leaves a lot of details out. As a Parisian who's been following this with attention, here are a few details: * first, the "SUV" part is the intent, but not the reality. It's actually by weight: over 1600kg for ICE and 2000kg for electric/hybrids. A lot of French SUVs fit under those restrictions (for example Peugeot 2008/3008). It's unclear to me if there is really something specific to target those SUVs…

The weight limit is quite weird. My 2019 BMW 2 series (so not big at all!) weighs 1690kg and length of 443.7cm has a width of 177.4cm without mirrors.
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