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Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

theguardian.com

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Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#131

Post by kergonath »

pjc50 wrote: post #91
rwmj wrote: post #3

It makes sense that road and parking pricing should be proportional to the size and impact of your car. Hopefully this will encourage manufacturers to produce more smaller cars - it's getting somewhat hard to buy a small car these days. I'd love to have a Japanese-style Kei car.

You'd think that the country which invented the 2CV and went for full-nuclear electricity generation to save oil imports would have plenty of good small EV options.

There are some of them (like Zoé and the e-208). But even if the option is there, not everyone can afford it, and if everyone would, production would be insufficient, and if production were sufficient, then raw materials imports would not be enough.

There is no magical switch, we have to accept that any transition will be long and messy.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#132

Post by sandworm101 »

rwmj wrote: post #3

It makes sense that road and parking pricing should be proportional to the size and impact of your car. Hopefully this will encourage manufacturers to produce more smaller cars - it's getting somewhat hard to buy a small car these days. I'd love to have a Japanese-style Kei car.

Correct. So motorcycle parking tickets should be 1/4 of cars.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#133

Post by Fradow »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #119
Fradow wrote: post #75

This article leaves a lot of details out. As a Parisian who's been following this with attention, here are a few details: * first, the "SUV" part is the intent, but not the reality. It's actually by weight: over 1600kg for ICE and 2000kg for electric/hybrids. A lot of French SUVs fit under those restrictions (for example Peugeot 2008/3008). It's unclear to me if there is really something specific to target those SUVs…

>the result was expected With 54,55 % in favor and only 5,68 % voting, I wouldn't call that "expected". >is strictly a QoL improvements for Parisians No, anyone visiting Paris in anything other than an SUV (say, a train, a bus, a bicycle) will benefit.

To be fair, the sentiment was "it will be a landslide in favour" (like the electric scooters). It indeed wasn't, but still went in the expected way.

People visiting Paris were not polled, only Parisians were, that's why I only explained this point of view. But yes it does benefit everyone that doesn't visit Paris in a SUV.

Note that it also impacts Parisians with a SUV when they are parking outside of their resident zones (a resident parking permit allows you to park in 4 zones around your home).

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#134

Post by okuntilnow »

reacharavindh wrote: post #126

When I told my wife this, her immediate reaction was - “oh no, the families with 2 or more children that needs a bigger car will be penalized because of the SUVs driven by those who don’t need it”. And I said may be this is a two birds one stone moment. Give out SUV passes to those families with 2 or more children, and make it absurdly expensive for the rest. This way either you help increase the birth rate in EU or…

Is an SUV needed for two children? I can accommodate my two children (and the dog if required) in my smallish hatchback.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#135

Post by kergonath »

nox101 wrote: post #63
infotainment wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed -- the popularity of giant vehicles is basically a tragedy-of-the-commons situation, and probably regulation is the only way to fix it at this point.

Some people claim it was regulation that caused SUVs https://www.capitalone.com/cars/learn/finding-the-right-car/... Hopefully new regulation will fix it rather than make it worse

Certainly not in Europe, where things like pickup trucks and light trucks were exceedingly rare and there was no such regulation loophole.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#136

Post by dustincoates »

neoberg wrote: post #66
moritonal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd agree that families have the best reason for larger vehicles given how public transport can be difficult for buggies ect. An interesting intersection of gov trying to encourage families could be used here to offer a tax-relief on people that carpool (which'd by default therefore include families)?

A good public transport system is not difficult for families and even easier. Berlin has a pretty good public transport. We had a car when we first moved here (we're a family) but we never had the need to use it other than 1-2 occasions in a year because public transport + biking is easier, faster and more comfortable. At the end we got rid of our car and not planning to buy another one. For those occasions that happ…

Sadly, Paris is not that. It's a great public transport system without families, but not for anyone with young children or with mobility problems. I can make do, but only if I have my 18 mos. old in the stroller OR my 3 year old walking, but not both. (It's a bit easier for my wife, because people will stop and help her up and down the stairs with the stroller.)

Buses do tend to be a bit easier if you're travelling outside of peak hours. Otherwise, you might have to let a bus or two pass you before one comes with enough space for the stroller.

Things are supposed to be a lot better with the Grand Paris Express, although that won't help much intramuros.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#137

Post by soco »

davstr1 wrote: post #47
Gigachad wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imo you should be allowed to use the parking spots for just about whatever you want within reason. Pay the parking price and set up a hotdog stand for the day if you want. Then raise the price until some spots are usually free

Free market solutions are so simple, elegant, natural and organic...I wonder why ecologists hate it that much...not.

I am not aware of any country where there's a free market. As soon as somebody can point me to one, we will see how's the parking space there and take that as a model.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#138

Post by HenriTEL »

quonn wrote: post #98
HenriTEL wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually only EVs above 2 Metric Tons are concerned, which is fair IMO.

It's fair only to young people without kids. The Model 3 barely manages to be below that limit and it might work with kids (although no doubt the Y is better for that). But it is difficult to use for old people because it is so low that getting in and out is not easy and making it less low will make it less efficient and require adding a larger battery - making it heavier.

No, even the long range still has a 150kg margin. The problem is that people use their large car to go on vacation with the children for their work commute, be it an SUV or a long rage EV, that's not sustainable. Especially in a town like Paris where you have good public transports (could be better, granted).

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#139

Post by soco »

Zak wrote: post #93
rjst01 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most eligible voters are probably not personally affected and so didn't see a need vote. A quorum would make it effectively impossible to change anything.

The current system makes it possible for a very small portion of the population to change things for everyone. I'm not sure that's better.

If said "everyone" would care, they'd definitely show up at the booths. So the change is better indeed, benefiting those few who care.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#140

Post by _heimdall »

strawberryfie wrote: post #106
Fradow wrote: post #75

This article leaves a lot of details out. As a Parisian who's been following this with attention, here are a few details: * first, the "SUV" part is the intent, but not the reality. It's actually by weight: over 1600kg for ICE and 2000kg for electric/hybrids. A lot of French SUVs fit under those restrictions (for example Peugeot 2008/3008). It's unclear to me if there is really something specific to target those SUVs…

It’s interesting that new legislation is baking in the idea that more “sustainable” cars can weigh a lot more. Disappointing that this means we won’t tackle the other externalities of personal motorised transport including size, safety and visibility issues, wear on public infrastructure, and sheer amount of extra material people use to get themselves around.

I think the idea is that batteries can make the car more dense. Their concern was larger vehicles not fitting in parking spaces, allowing more weight in an EV makes sense in that case.

It is interesting that they went with weight as a proxy for size though. I expect the process for charging by weight or dimensions would come down to a list of oversized vehicle models, why abstract it a layer rather than a max width/length?

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