Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 202 posts

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#161

Post by davstr1 »

soco wrote: post #137
davstr1 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free market solutions are so simple, elegant, natural and organic...I wonder why ecologists hate it that much...not.

I am not aware of any country where there's a free market. As soon as somebody can point me to one, we will see how's the parking space there and take that as a model.

Free market is not an absolute measure, not a 100%, but rather a cursor. A country is rather ruled by free market or by government.

Like in "are USA more a free market than Venezuela and North Korea ?"

I can't understand why so many people keep on saying "there is no free market", as that's not even an argument. I mean i hope you can get out of this "black or white" void which just cancels any intent of reasoning. Unless it's done on purpose.

Here is a list by the way : https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#162

Post by tacoe »

tomp wrote: post #149
infotainment wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed -- the popularity of giant vehicles is basically a tragedy-of-the-commons situation, and probably regulation is the only way to fix it at this point.

Yeah once you have kids, you realize this isn't the truth but actually just FUD.

People had kids before the SUV boom?

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#163

Post by adrianN »

tpm wrote: post #144
adrianN wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty easy to achieve fleet goals with plugin hybrids, since they have ridiculously low emissions on the standard tests (unlike in reality).

Which is why new vehicles (since 2021) have a On-Board Fuel Consumption Meter and this data is then collected by the EU.

Oh I didn’t know that. Does the eu do something with the data? Is it just collected to inform some hypothetical future law? In the latter case that will likely be overtaken by the market favoring BEVs

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#164

Post by tpm »

adrianN wrote: post #163
tpm wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why new vehicles (since 2021) have a On-Board Fuel Consumption Meter and this data is then collected by the EU.

Oh I didn’t know that. Does the eu do something with the data? Is it just collected to inform some hypothetical future law? In the latter case that will likely be overtaken by the market favoring BEVs

There is not a lot of info about that, but as far as I could gather the data started to be collected only last year, so probably not a lot right now.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#165

Post by mcntsh »

curun1r wrote: post #117
mcntsh wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs are not really popular in my EU city because they require a dedicated parking space with a charger and most people live in an apartment with none of that.

This isn’t inherently true. Take a look at the Silence S04. The batteries are removable and have wheels and a handle like luggage. You could park in any old spot and wheel the battery home to charge. They’re even cheap to buy because you can buy just the car and lease the batteries on a monthly basis. For small city cars with batteries that aren’t too heavy, this kind of design makes an EV workable for a lot of peopl…

I feel like charging these batteries in my apartment would be some kind of a safety hazard.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#166

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

Gigachad wrote: post #18
schleck8 wrote: post #2

This applies to people coming in from outside the city with SUVs. It's probably still not fully financing the parking spots. Parking spots in cities are incredibly expensive and heavily subsidized.

Imo you should be allowed to use the parking spots for just about whatever you want within reason. Pay the parking price and set up a hotdog stand for the day if you want. Then raise the price until some spots are usually free

In my city, during the covid lockdowns, restaurants were allowed to set up outdoor tables in the street parking spots in front of their restaurants. Many built semi-permanent structures with wooden flooring, waist-high walls to isolate seated guests from motorists, roofs for shade, etc.

After everything opened back up, restaurants were allowed to keep the spots for about a year so long as they brought the structures up to code. After that, rather than shut them down the city started charging them rent.

It's such a nice solution. The city earns much more revenue than they would if they put a parking meter there, the business gets more seating capacity, the guests get al fresco dining options. The only people who lose are those who insist upon driving (instead of Ubering, taking public transit, biking, walking, etc.), but even they can just park further away from the crowded areas and walk, or park in the parking structures (which charge something closer to market rate).

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#167

Post by Symbiote »

cpursley wrote: post #107
pjc50 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the absolute sales and percentage of sales is up, it's just the rate of acceleration that's decreased. https://www.ev-volumes.com/

This literally has sections labeled “Lower European Expectations” and “North American fall”.

You will need to read the sentences or look at the charts rather than just skim the headings.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#168

Post by soco »

davstr1 wrote: post #161
soco wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not aware of any country where there's a free market. As soon as somebody can point me to one, we will see how's the parking space there and take that as a model.

Free market is not an absolute measure, not a 100%, but rather a cursor. A country is rather ruled by free market or by government. Like in "are USA more a free market than Venezuela and North Korea ?" I can't understand why so many people keep on saying "there is no free market", as that's not even an argument. I mean i hope you can get out of this "black or white" void which just cancels any intent of reasoning. Un…

When somebody makes an argument to let the free market do something free, it's quite important to remember that said free market is not free and will definitely not act freely, whether we're talking North Korea or USA. And the Parisian parking places market is definitely not a free market (as we just saw) so we simply cannot have a real talk about "letting the market decide", until same Parisians vote to let them run free. Assuming that was your argument we could talk about such a vote - which by looking at the trends has zero chances to pass. But let's assume for the sake of argument it would pass. Next vote will be then to limit it again because nobody wants a Cayenne parked in the narrow street in front of their little shop windows, either blocking the view or the passage, or the traffic. But again for the sake of the argument let's say we only liberalize the spaces in places where you can actually park bigger cars. Then yes you will be able to park them, but still not put a kebab stand because well a parking space is a parking space by definition, so again you'd need a voting to change that place attribution. And I could go on to show you how all this is in reality very much not free regardless whether you call the French economy a free market or not. It's not a jungle but a city with lots of inter-dependencies and who doesn't like it can, yeah, move someplace else - like in a jungle. And even in a jungle you wouldn't want to park your Cayenne next to the gorillas den. Freedom to do whatever is there only when you're completely alone - or in imagination.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#169

Post by bitcharmer »

tomp wrote: post #149
infotainment wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed -- the popularity of giant vehicles is basically a tragedy-of-the-commons situation, and probably regulation is the only way to fix it at this point.

Yeah once you have kids, you realize this isn't the truth but actually just FUD.

I don't understand. What does having children have to do with this issue?

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#170

Post by schleck8 »

rightbyte wrote: post #43
schleck8 wrote: post #2

This applies to people coming in from outside the city with SUVs. It's probably still not fully financing the parking spots. Parking spots in cities are incredibly expensive and heavily subsidized.

Subsidized in what way? You mean street parking?

Subsidized by the government

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztHZj6QNlkM

Post reply on HN