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Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

theguardian.com

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Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#21

Post by tuvan »

seydor wrote: post #12
rwmj wrote: post #3

It makes sense that road and parking pricing should be proportional to the size and impact of your car. Hopefully this will encourage manufacturers to produce more smaller cars - it's getting somewhat hard to buy a small car these days. I'd love to have a Japanese-style Kei car.

tiny EVs are going to be very popular in europe

I agree but it's an interesting problem, things like parking spaces and roads will still have to be made to the size of largest vehicle that will use them and I imagine more cars in the same amount of road will lead to even more traffic.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#22

Post by quonn »

buro9 wrote: post #9
wkipling wrote: post #4

Why a tonnage limit for electric vehicles. It's obviously not entirely for GHG reasons. 2T is not all that heavy for EVs.

Weight is the best way to tax vehicles. It correlates to the amount of energy needed to move it, generally with the size of the vehicle, and highly with the particulate pollution from brakes and tyres (yes I'm aware of regenerative braking), as well as the amount of wear and tear on the roads and infrastructure, etc. European cities were never built for large vehicles, we should be going towards smaller vehicles, a F…

> Weight is the best way to tax vehicles.

No it isn't. Even the most simple look into EV database would have shown that this is flat out wrong. There are heavy and big vehicles in there using very little energy and small ones using a lot.

So what should be taxed is the actual efficiency - either per individual vehicle which would also incentivise reasonable driving (could be easily done by either submitting two numbers, similar to what is already submitted to insurance) - or by using the test ratings which is a good approximation.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#23

Post by graemep »

quonn wrote: post #14

Actually they voted for tripling the cost of heavy vehicles. The size is not even mentioned. It's a shortsighted move, since it incentives using gasoline cars in cities and disincentivies Hybrid and even EVs due to their weight. There is nothing in the rules specific to SUVs.

No, people can use a small EV.

I am not even sure using a large EV is better than a small ICE once you take into account other forms of pollution, road damage, congestion (which increases pollution as well as other effects) and safety issues.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#25

Post by mcntsh »

seydor wrote: post #12
rwmj wrote: post #3

It makes sense that road and parking pricing should be proportional to the size and impact of your car. Hopefully this will encourage manufacturers to produce more smaller cars - it's getting somewhat hard to buy a small car these days. I'd love to have a Japanese-style Kei car.

tiny EVs are going to be very popular in europe

EVs are not really popular in my EU city because they require a dedicated parking space with a charger and most people live in an apartment with none of that.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#26

Post by surgical_fire »

quonn wrote: post #14

Actually they voted for tripling the cost of heavy vehicles. The size is not even mentioned. It's a shortsighted move, since it incentives using gasoline cars in cities and disincentivies Hybrid and even EVs due to their weight. There is nothing in the rules specific to SUVs.

Paris has excellent public transportation infrastructure.

They might as well incentive people to use that instead of cars.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#27

Post by sokoloff »

cpursley wrote: post #19
seydor wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tiny EVs are going to be very popular in europe

EVs in Europe and the US are on the downward trend at the moment. I’m not entirely sure why, maybe they are still too expensive.

The first derivative is still strongly positive. The second derivative is what’s been reported as falling, which is common in the typical S-shaped adoption curve.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#28

Post by blueflow »

pmontra wrote: post #11

From the article it seems that the campaign was about pollution. Heavier vehicles also consume the road much more than lighter ones. It's proportional to the fourth power of the weight on axles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

There is no math behind it and its evidence is poor. Thats why:

> The accuracy of the law of the fourth power is disputed among experts

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#30

Post by luplex »

tuvan wrote: post #21
seydor wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tiny EVs are going to be very popular in europe

I agree but it's an interesting problem, things like parking spaces and roads will still have to be made to the size of largest vehicle that will use them and I imagine more cars in the same amount of road will lead to even more traffic.

You can have different sizes of parking spaces, for different prices maybe.

And the change will probably not increase the amount of cars on the road, because at the same time, bikes and public transport are becoming more attractive in cities all across the continent.

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