Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs • Hacker News Board

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#151

Post by jabl » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 12:55 PM UTC

quonn wrote: post #108

jabl wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite tricky actually. There's other negative externalities from car usage apart from the energy usage, like tire and brake dust, congestion, accidents, and road wear. And using up limited space in cities for parking. Etc. etc. Even if you only wanted to tax energy usage, that clearly correlated with the amount of fuel or electricity used. Taxing liquid fuel is common and a sensible choice, however you can't sla…

You can slap a tax on the car. You simply take energy used/miles driven and that's your multiplier for a yearly vehicle tax. It could be collected by insurance companies (that usually require you to submit the miles driven anyway) on behalf of the government . As for the other things, such as congestion, I believe it when I see proof that there is a big difference between cars. Even if there is, the priority right no…

I fully agree reducing CO2 emissions should have a high priority. Which for fossil fuels would mean a quite substantial tax on the fuel volume, but for EV's it's trickier since electricity is used for many other things, and electricity production is already taxed for CO2 emissions (or cap and trade etc). There's no particular reason, from an emissions perspective at least, why electricity for EV's should be taxed higher than, say, for domestic use. If anything, an extra tax on electricity could be counter-productive if it causes more people to prefer ICE cars.

Which implies that a vehicle tax should then be primarily concerned with non energy use types of externalities. And maybe generally funding road construction, and so on. Probably a lot of that is more accurate if the tax is a function of distance driven than a fixed cost, true, assuming you can reliably get that information in a privacy compatible way.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#152

Post by ZeroGravitas » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 1:01 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #27

cpursley wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs in Europe and the US are on the downward trend at the moment. I’m not entirely sure why, maybe they are still too expensive.

The first derivative is still strongly positive. The second derivative is what’s been reported as falling, which is common in the typical S-shaped adoption curve.

[flagged]

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#153

Post by ZeroGravitas » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 1:08 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #57

cpursley wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the downvoters, look it up - this is objectively true and has been well reported. And I’m not saying don’t buy an electric car, just that EV sales have decreased.

I couldn't find anything substantiating this claim, everyone is reporting record sales. What is decreasing is sales growth [1]. As in: each year more EVs are sold than the last year, but the difference to previous year's sales is shrinking 1: https://www.ev-volumes.com/

Sometimes the difference is still increasing year on year, but due to the higher baseline, the percentage increase has declined.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#154

Post by HenriTEL » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 1:09 PM UTC

quonn wrote: post #150

HenriTEL wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, even the long range still has a 150kg margin. The problem is that people use their large car to go on vacation with the children for their work commute, be it an SUV or a long rage EV, that's not sustainable. Especially in a town like Paris where you have good public transports (could be better, granted).

So it's more sustainable to have two cars instead of one? For an EV most of the emissions are created during production, so the less production the better. It's best to have one sufficiently flexible car, even if it's bigger, since that minimises production emissions. Also the large car is not just used to take the kids on vacations, but typically all the time.

> So it's more sustainable to have two cars instead of one? Depends on the cars but if the second one is a small EV yes, you're better using that for your daily commute. The larger one should last longer, mitigating the production cost over the long term.

Still in towns like Paris you should favor bicycle or public transportation. You can also have a smaller EV and rent a larger one for the long trips.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#155

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 1:10 PM UTC

barney54 wrote: post #32

The reality is that people like their SUVs. It doesn’t matter where in the world, SUVs are popular and growing in market share. Here’s the International Energy Agency on SUVs. https://www.iea.org/commentaries/as-their-sales-continue-to-...

Repel the Chicken Tax then and we'll see how auto OEM change their tunes and people start liking small cars again.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/chicken-tax.asp

>Most SUVs are classified as light trucks and are therefore included in the Chicken Tax

Full story: https://www.wired.com/2014/12/subaru-brat/

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#156

Post by penguin_booze » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 1:10 PM UTC

Even if this were a resounding message against SUVs, I think this will lift the status of the SUV owners: "look what I can afford, even with expensive parking fee". This is just like how Apple made the exortionary and inflated prices of their products "cool" and a status symbol.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#157

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 1:12 PM UTC

Fradow wrote: post #133

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the result was expected With 54,55 % in favor and only 5,68 % voting, I wouldn't call that "expected". >is strictly a QoL improvements for Parisians No, anyone visiting Paris in anything other than an SUV (say, a train, a bus, a bicycle) will benefit.

To be fair, the sentiment was "it will be a landslide in favour" (like the electric scooters). It indeed wasn't, but still went in the expected way. People visiting Paris were not polled, only Parisians were, that's why I only explained this point of view. But yes it does benefit everyone that doesn't visit Paris in a SUV. Note that it also impacts Parisians with a SUV when they are parking outside of their resident…

>the sentiment was "it will be a landslide in favour"

Source?

I voted and like many people in circles and voting center, I didn't share that sentiment.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#158

Post by wongarsu » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 1:22 PM UTC

Zak wrote: post #93

rjst01 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most eligible voters are probably not personally affected and so didn't see a need vote. A quorum would make it effectively impossible to change anything.

The current system makes it possible for a very small portion of the population to change things for everyone. I'm not sure that's better.

If a small portion of people is in favor of a change and the rest is ambivalent, does that mean the change shouldn't happen?

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#159

Post by cpursley » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 1:39 PM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #152

sokoloff wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first derivative is still strongly positive. The second derivative is what’s been reported as falling, which is common in the typical S-shaped adoption curve.

[flagged]

Flagged for making assumptions about my intentions and using very unkind and ugly language towards your fellow citizens.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#160

Post by robertlagrant » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 1:48 PM UTC

lagadu wrote: post #147

robertlagrant wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An X3 isn't massive. We have a mid-size people carrier and although it's a different (and less practical) shape, it's a very similar size. An X7 is more what you're talking about, which almost no-one has.

The X3 is big (D segment I believe) and larger by a decent margin than most other cars on the road. Even the X1 is not anywhere near close to being small (C segment?).