Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry • Hacker News Board

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#421

Post by canucker2016 » Sat, Feb 03, 2024, 8:37 PM UTC

EasyMark wrote: post #331

fundad wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not surprising that a lot Murica is decades behind most places in the world. Especially places where foreigners visit.

How is it behind? I've not been at a store in a while that I couldn't use apple pay or a card? I know it's popular to bag on America, but I figure most of HN is better than that.

Until Apple Pay and other smartphone-related payment methods became common, the USA credit card was technologically behind much of Europe, Canada, and other developed countries.

Chip-and-PIN (EMV, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV) is the standard in Europe and Canada for relaying credit card info & authentication.

Many USA retailers were stuck using the credit card's magnetic stripe for entering card info. Evidently the USA still hasn't moved to Chip-and-PIN, with Chip and Signature being more common. Updating the point-of-sale terminals has been the chokepoint supposedly, https://lauraclery.com/chip-and-pin-united-states/.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#422

Post by xadhominemx » Sat, Feb 03, 2024, 8:49 PM UTC

newaccount74 wrote: post #412

xadhominemx wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks all over the world make healthy margins on cross-border transactions involving a currency cross. It is not unique to American banks at all.

My EU bank charges less than 1% currency exchange fee. US banks have charged me 5-8%. It's not the same.

No way a US bank charged you that amount unless you made the purchase in an esoteric fashion.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#423

Post by xadhominemx » Sat, Feb 03, 2024, 8:50 PM UTC

_xivi wrote: post #391

xadhominemx wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What difference does the elimination of paper money at POS make to ability to access electronic deposits? Unless you are saying people should not bank at all and keep cash under the mattress?

> What difference does the elimination of paper money at POS make to ability to access electronic deposits? The difference it makes is that now you only have one way to access your savings. Any failures, technical issues, outage, etc. and you're out of luck to say the least. The principle is that you shouldn't rely on a single system ever. If you're eager to go that way be my guest. I was using a real life scenario o…

How is any of this different with cash withdrawals? You're still withdrawing from a digital account.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#424

Post by PrimeMcFly » Sat, Feb 03, 2024, 8:55 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #20

jason-phillips wrote: post #2

I live an hour or so outside of Austin and people still primarily write checks as that's the only acceptable payment method, along with cash. My new wife said, "Wait, why not just use Stripe? I'll tell them." I had to explain to her that one does not simply pull forward a society thirty years into the future. There is an incredible amount of cultural inertia to overcome. So I carry a lot of cash out here.

Aren't cheques even worse for privacy though? Not only your bank knows exactly who you paid and how much, the seller also now has your actual name since it's just written on the cheque - at least when paying by card they get nothing. Maybe I'm getting it wrong - cheques are something I've only seen in films, in my country no bank accepts them since 2020 anymore, they've been completely phased out.

Checks certainly are not completely phased out in your country, just no longer common for consumers.

And shopkeepers can still take a name off a card.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#425

Post by PrimeMcFly » Sat, Feb 03, 2024, 8:58 PM UTC

dazc wrote: post #205

rwmj wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe (even in the US!) you can pay in a check by taking a photo in your bank app.

The money isn't instant though. People paying for such services with a cheque would do well living a few weeks in someone else's shoes.

It typically is these days.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#426

Post by PrimeMcFly » Sat, Feb 03, 2024, 8:59 PM UTC

madsbuch wrote: post #11

I Denmark we are removing the 1000kr bill as of May 2025. from then on the highest bill. is 500kr which is roughly equal to 80 usd. Denmark Is the most cashless society I have yet experiences (and I have been traveling a fair bit). This comes with pros and cons. and I think the reason why it works is because of an incredibly high social trust.

Just as there are checks and balances against a prime minister becoming a dictator, there should be checks and balances against a state abusing a digital currency.

Removing cash makes that hard.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#427

Post by PrimeMcFly » Sat, Feb 03, 2024, 9:08 PM UTC

dazc wrote: post #210

forinti wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a middle-income country and it's now not unusual to see beggars with card machines at the red light.

In the UK we have anti-money laundering rules for banks commonly known as 'know your customer' where they are obliged to inquire about how one's business works. I can imagine a few interesting conversions as a result.

crypto was probably a godsend.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#428

Post by fsckboy » Sat, Feb 03, 2024, 9:10 PM UTC

madsbuch wrote: post #11

I Denmark we are removing the 1000kr bill as of May 2025. from then on the highest bill. is 500kr which is roughly equal to 80 usd. Denmark Is the most cashless society I have yet experiences (and I have been traveling a fair bit). This comes with pros and cons. and I think the reason why it works is because of an incredibly high social trust.

how do cashless transactions require social trust? you trust your bank, I trust my bank, and we don't have to trust each other at all. if you can't trust your bank, you are SOL.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#429

Post by PrimeMcFly » Sat, Feb 03, 2024, 9:10 PM UTC

dazc wrote: post #193

yaky wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, we have $100 and $50 bills officially in circulation, but many places will refuse to take them as payment, even though they will take smaller denominations. I believe this is usually described as avoiding counterfeit money and/or not keeping more than a certain amount of cash in the register.

In the UK we have £50 notes which are notoriously difficult to use as cash since there are many counterfeits in circulation and it's hard to differentiate between genuine and fake. We also have notes issued by Scottish banks which are legal tender throughout the UK but good luck finding a retailer outside of Scotland willing to accept them.

> We also have notes issued by Scottish banks which are legal tender throughout the UK but good luck finding a retailer outside of Scotland willing to accept them.

Yeah that shit should be illegal.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#430

Post by PrimeMcFly » Sat, Feb 03, 2024, 9:11 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #89

madsbuch wrote: post #11

I Denmark we are removing the 1000kr bill as of May 2025. from then on the highest bill. is 500kr which is roughly equal to 80 usd. Denmark Is the most cashless society I have yet experiences (and I have been traveling a fair bit). This comes with pros and cons. and I think the reason why it works is because of an incredibly high social trust.

> high social trust. With the rise of ML, and people salivating over the data inherent in currency flow, I suspect that trust may soon go the way of the dodo. In the US, anything that makes money tends to get helped along. Regulators look the other way (until some knucklehead starts stealing from rich people), and even the lowest-level employees become "stans" of their bosses. I am a believer in the promise of social…

> I am a believer in the promise of socialism, but, like communism, it's something that works on paper, but people screw it up.

The premise itself is screwy because it doesn't account for human nature.