What’s interesting is that cash 10% more valuable than digital money. I wonder if that gap will keep increasing.
Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
201–210 of 498 posts
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#202There are two fallacies I frequently feel the need to debunk in this discussion. - Cash is anonymous - Cash is an "old" or "low" technology. When a serious crime is committed you might be surprised how much the police can do to trace cash. Serial numbers in and out of ATMs and shops are tracked, and frequently your face is captured by cameras in stores, ATMs and vending machines. Modern cash is high technology . Look…
>>When a serious crime is committed you might be surprised how much the police can do to trace cash. Serial numbers in and out of ATMs and shops are tracked, and frequently your face is captured by cameras in stores, ATMs and vending machines.
Go to bank, take out 100's, to small mom and pop get change... problem solved.
Further it is highly unlikely that if some bill I got out of ATM finds it way to a crime scene or something that they will be proof of anything a defense lawyer would shoot that down in about 2 secs
>> It's well past the point of being worth forging
Not really.
>>future banknotes will use einks, embedded printable passive electronics to do all of the things people hope or fear of purely digital cash
and those should be opposed as well
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#203I Denmark we are removing the 1000kr bill as of May 2025. from then on the highest bill. is 500kr which is roughly equal to 80 usd. Denmark Is the most cashless society I have yet experiences (and I have been traveling a fair bit). This comes with pros and cons. and I think the reason why it works is because of an incredibly high social trust.
I moved to Sweden ~2.5 years ago and I can count the number of times I've used cash on one hand. It's definitely less private, but the convenience is unmatched. Honestly, I don't even know what the modern Swedish notes look like now!
> but the convenience is unmatched
I've actually timed this.
It takes ~8 seconds to fish out the card, insert it, wait for approval, and replace it in the wallet. Roughly similar time frame for unlocking your phone and approving the NFC transaction.
It takes ~15 seconds to fish out a C-note, insert it into the self-checkout bill accepter, retrieve the change, and put the change into my wallet.
Delta of 7 seconds.
Let's say you're a typical tech worker, and your time is worth on the order of $120/hr. 7 seconds is 23 cents to you.
Let's further assume you just paid 23 cents to buy $80 worth of groceries as a non-convenience fee so the data brokers and/or the Feds don't know your precise shopping habits.
You just paid a 0.3% "transaction fee" for your privacy. The Visa network takes on the order of 2+% to DESTROY your privacy. You're getting a really raw deal here, by choosing this "convenience".
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#204Not using cash means someone gets a cut of a processing fee. Every time, with almost no exceptions. I’m not down to have rent seeking companies taking a slice of my hard earned money just so I don’t have to manage a few pieces of paper. You’re generally paying 3-4 percent of every transaction now, as that’s pretty standard for debit cards on businesses, and it doesn’t matter if it’s charged to the card holder or the…
And yet, when last did you get a 3-4% discount when paying cash? I remember that from the 90s and 00s. In fact, I have seen some small places ask a 3-4% surcharge for cash payments, because banks don't process cash for free any more.
A lot of places around here charge a bit less for cash payments.
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, it's not really done, is it? She has to go to the bank and cash the check, right? It's not the end of the world, sure, but it's an extra trip compared with a bank transfer -- with a bank transfer she has the money ready to be used immediately.
I believe (even in the US!) you can pay in a check by taking a photo in your bank app.
The money isn't instant though. People paying for such services with a cheque would do well living a few weeks in someone else's shoes.
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I’m not down to have rent seeking companies taking a slice of my hard earned money just so I don’t have to manage a few pieces of paper. You’re pretending as if there weren’t any costs associated with handling cash. There’s almost always a handling fee if you want to put the cash into an account, which you will need to do if you want to pay people that are somewhere else than you are. If you have larger quantities…
> There’s almost always a handling fee Citation needed. I've been depositing cash for years, with multiple banks, and nobody has ever charged a "handling fee". > safe transportation of the funds Yes, a lot of people have this irrational reaction to carrying large amounts of cash, as if your unremarkable Toyota miraculously sports a giant "BRINKS" logo every time you carry cash, attracting the attention of would-be cr…
>Citation needed. I've been depositing cash for years, with multiple banks, and nobody has ever charged a "handling fee".
It's a fee associated with business accounts.
>https://www.bankofamerica.com/smallbusiness/deposits/resourc...
>Cash Deposit Processing No fee for first $7,500 in cash deposited per statement cycle at an ATM or Financial Center; then $0.30 per $100 deposited thereafter
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#207Does anyone check their credit card bills or bank statements to be sure that all of the charges are valid and for the correct amount? It seems like if you use electronic payment for everything there would be a lot of items to verify. Or do you just assume there's never any errors?
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#208Not using cash means someone gets a cut of a processing fee. Every time, with almost no exceptions. I’m not down to have rent seeking companies taking a slice of my hard earned money just so I don’t have to manage a few pieces of paper. You’re generally paying 3-4 percent of every transaction now, as that’s pretty standard for debit cards on businesses, and it doesn’t matter if it’s charged to the card holder or the…
There were already costs. There were always costs and risks associated with cash handling: armored trucks doing cash collection, risks of money in tills being lost. If it really were a lot cheaper you wouldn’t see businesses clamouring to go cashless. That’s not to say I think cash should go the way of the dodo, but I don’t think there’s that much difference paying g4s to collect your money vs Mastercard. IMO the ben…
These are even higher for digital, all the associated software development, audits, etc. That processing fee is on top of this, and is easily variable.
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#209There are two fallacies I frequently feel the need to debunk in this discussion. - Cash is anonymous - Cash is an "old" or "low" technology. When a serious crime is committed you might be surprised how much the police can do to trace cash. Serial numbers in and out of ATMs and shops are tracked, and frequently your face is captured by cameras in stores, ATMs and vending machines. Modern cash is high technology . Look…
What the police and other authorities 'can do' is a world away from what they 'actually do', in 99% of cases. You could be unlucky if your crime passes a certain threshold or affects someone with power but, most of the time, it will not be investigated with the resources of the state.
Exactly the feature desirable to everyone in society. Including the
police.
I had a funny conversation with some LE types the other day (in the context of something we call "fly-tipping") about how, in theory, everyone who litters could be brought to book because they leave their fingerprints all over stuff.
Nobody in forensics is ever going to do that unless it's a very serious case. Nobody wants to be compelled to investigate some bs crime just because its possible. Make things too convenient and you've got China.
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
Besides high social trust, I assume also a great IT infrastructure with guaranteed high uptime, a tech literate population willing to adopt new technology and not be stubborn to change, plus a small business environment not focused on cash driven tax dodging, like in the German speaking countries.
I live in a middle-income country and it's now not unusual to see beggars with card machines at the red light.
In the UK we have anti-money laundering rules for banks commonly known as 'know your customer' where they are obliged to inquire about how one's business works.
I can imagine a few interesting conversions as a result.