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Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#401
post #362
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know anything about other forums, but for the reasons why on HN we don't publish a full moderation log, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39234189 as well as the past explanations linked from there. You can, however, always get a question answered. That's basically our implicit contract with the community.

Full moderation logs are different than showing submitters how their posts have been moderated. On HN, my understanding is that you (moderators) can penalize stories without the submitter's knowledge. But if HN instead disclosed that penalty to the story's submitter, that would help this community communicate better. As for how it works elsewhere, if a YouTube channel removes your comment, you won't know [1]. Same th…

I'm sorry, but I think that would have the effect of making what is already a difficult job impossible. Even if most submitters saw that information and went "oh! well I guess that's that then," the number who would instantly fire off emails of protest would overwhelm our capacity to answer them.

Every submitter thinks their story deserves to make HN's front page, if not #1. Actually, that's not entirely true—the cleverest and most tasteful submitters are often the most humble. We have to go out of our way to try to find what they post because they're the last people who would ever send an email demanding attention.

But I can tell you from experience (81,556 emails and counting) that there are far more people who think their blog post ought to be #1 on HN than I could ever answer, and I can tell you what happens if one tries: many come back with a list of objections that is 3x longer than the entire conversation so far. The problem grows the more you feed it.

I want people to be able to get answers to their questions. No one would love it more than me if we could find some automated way of reducing that load while still answering people's questions. But so far every suggestion of how to do this sets off so many alarms in my body that I wonder if I'll sleep that night.

I'm afraid that might come across dismissive and I apologize if it does. It's just that the status quo already involves so much pressure that if I try to explain, I come across as a deranged beach ball that's been pinned deep underwater for 10 years.

Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#403
Are there HN metrics available that include voting behavior and viewing behavior?

For example, is it more commonplace lately to comment without upvoting, than it used to be? (Upvoting the post and/or the parent comment.)

And how has the comments-to-pageviews ratio changed over time?

Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#404
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a quick glance, I found several that don't match that criteria you mention, here are a few: Open Source Doesn't Require Providing Builds https://codeengineered.com/blog/2024/open-source-not-builds/ Sam Altman Says AI Using Too Much Energy Will Require Breakthrough Energy Source https://futurism.com/sam-altman-energy-breakthrough Avoid Async Rust at All Cost https://blog.hugpoint.tech/avoid_async_rust.html (Perhaps…

The things you see on HN are not purely decided by the community. Mods can and do "freeze" the vote count on comments and posts, and do other non-obvious things too. You will notice the effect after participating for a while.

We don't freeze vote counts. What made you think that we did?

Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#405
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The things you see on HN are not purely decided by the community. Mods can and do "freeze" the vote count on comments and posts, and do other non-obvious things too. You will notice the effect after participating for a while.

Exactly, the front page is heavily moderated. Almost every day you'll see posts with 50+ upvotes falling of the front page within an hour or two when some article about LISP with It's disingenuous to blame it on the users when there are clearly other "forces" at play here.

Yes, HN is a moderated/curated site and always has been. Here's 10 years' worth of me explaining that: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

What people maybe don't realize is how many constraints there are on HN's system. There aren't many degrees of freedom for us to change things that wouldn't lead to a massively different site, and most of those outcomes would be worse, because most of them would be closer to internet default.

It's easy imagine "HN, but without the things that I personally find annoying". But try to generalize that for a moment and the problem quickly becomes intractable.

Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#406
post #401
post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full moderation logs are different than showing submitters how their posts have been moderated. On HN, my understanding is that you (moderators) can penalize stories without the submitter's knowledge. But if HN instead disclosed that penalty to the story's submitter, that would help this community communicate better. As for how it works elsewhere, if a YouTube channel removes your comment, you won't know [1]. Same th…

I'm sorry, but I think that would have the effect of making what is already a difficult job impossible. Even if most submitters saw that information and went "oh! well I guess that's that then," the number who would instantly fire off emails of protest would overwhelm our capacity to answer them. Every submitter thinks their story deserves to make HN's front page, if not #1. Actually, that's not entirely true—the cle…

Your comment isn't dismissive, but I do think users have a right to know where they've been moderated.

Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, have you seen the price of bitcoin? Or the Bitcoin ETF? What are you talking about lol.

No because most people stopped talking about it

Yeah, you're just wrong. I have several people in the Philippines and South America who help me out with misc things (VA-type tasks).

All of them have asked me if I could pay them in crypto (USDC on AVAX Chain).

There's tons of people who use it for day to day. You're just in a bubble.

Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, the front page is heavily moderated. Almost every day you'll see posts with 50+ upvotes falling of the front page within an hour or two when some article about LISP with It's disingenuous to blame it on the users when there are clearly other "forces" at play here.

I’m sure the HN codebase has some secret creed to make lisp more popular

The code is written in Lisp, but it doesn't know that and has no way (edit: that I know of) to expand its empire.

Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Altman story was likely a dupe (or triplicate)

Why not redirect to the original story?

We do redirect to earlier posts that had the exact same URL. But most dupes, in the sense of repeated posts about the same story, don't have the exact same URL. What do you do then? That's a hard problem. It would be great to have an automated solution to that but I don't know of one.

Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a quick glance, I found several that don't match that criteria you mention, here are a few: Open Source Doesn't Require Providing Builds https://codeengineered.com/blog/2024/open-source-not-builds/ Sam Altman Says AI Using Too Much Energy Will Require Breakthrough Energy Source https://futurism.com/sam-altman-energy-breakthrough Avoid Async Rust at All Cost https://blog.hugpoint.tech/avoid_async_rust.html (Perhaps…

Sam Altman led invests in a nuclear fusion company, Helion. Guessing the potential conflict of interest is why the 2nd article drew vote controversy. https://www.helionenergy.com/articles/announcing-500-million...

This is the kind of explanation that makes sense when the association happens to come to mind—in this case, something like: HN -> YC -> Sam -> Helios -> nuclear -> obvious conflict of interest -> QED. But such chains of associations rarely have anything to do with what happened to a story on HN. The explanation is almost certainly much simpler.

In the case of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39095738, it just set off the flamewar detector, a,k.a. the overheated discussion detector. We sometimes turn that penalty off, but in a case like this we wouldn't do that because "$Celebrity says $thing about $common-subject" is almost never a substantial story. It's essential to HN to clear such stories off the front page in order to make room for more interesting, less sensational things. If we didn't, the front page would consist of little else.

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