Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

'Stupid,' 'shameful:' Tech workers on Y Combinator CEO Garry Tan's rant

missionlocal.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 558 posts

Re: 'Stupid,' 'shameful:' Tech workers on Y Combinator CEO Garry Tan's rant

#381

Post by ZeroGravitas »

syndacks wrote: post #377
tempestn wrote: post #257

I'm a little bit aghast at all the comments saying this is normal or no big deal. Maybe it is normal (or at least common), but it shouldn't be. If you believe it's no big deal, I can't agree. I can see this kind of behaviour from adolescents, but adults should understand that words are meaningful and have consequences, and that even if you disagree with someone, they're still a human being who deserves some modicum o…

He was only quoting Tupac…

Not totally sure if this comment is ironic or not but wanted to expand on this thought either way.

Using a reference with threatening language in it that is potentially unknown by the people recieving it, makes a death threat even more sinister as it feels like you're building in plausible deniability and trying to have your cake and eat it.

It's basically admitting "if I just said this it would cross a line, but if I quote it instead then it'll not cross a line for people who know it's a quote, but still cross the line for the people I'm threatening. So I get to make the threat and disclaim any intent at the same time.

Re: 'Stupid,' 'shameful:' Tech workers on Y Combinator CEO Garry Tan's rant

#382

Post by rayiner »

otikik wrote: post #366
s_dev wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but adults should understand that words are meaningful and have consequences What consequences should Gary face?

I am not a lawyer, but if some deranged individual who follows him takes his comment and face value and murders someone, he will face many consequences. Firstly, he would be involved on murder. That's not a great experience to have, for most people. He would at least be on trial. I don't exactly know how incitement to murder is treated in the US. It could even be considered domestic terrorism (an assassination made t…

He wouldn’t be prosecuted. Wishing death on political figures is a cherished American tradition, and well protected under the first amendment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threatening_the_president_of_t...

Re: 'Stupid,' 'shameful:' Tech workers on Y Combinator CEO Garry Tan's rant

#383

Post by Amezarak »

otikik wrote: post #366
s_dev wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but adults should understand that words are meaningful and have consequences What consequences should Gary face?

I am not a lawyer, but if some deranged individual who follows him takes his comment and face value and murders someone, he will face many consequences. Firstly, he would be involved on murder. That's not a great experience to have, for most people. He would at least be on trial. I don't exactly know how incitement to murder is treated in the US. It could even be considered domestic terrorism (an assassination made t…

Lawyers and judges have already been consulted and concluded that no crime was committed.

https://missionlocal.org/2024/01/y-combinator-ceo-garry-tans...

This would not change ex post facto because of someone else's actions.

In the US, what he did said is disgusting but legally protected free speech. It's conceivable that he could be opened up to a civil lawsuit, but that's about it.

Re: 'Stupid,' 'shameful:' Tech workers on Y Combinator CEO Garry Tan's rant

#384

Post by mlrtime »

asahiliker1 wrote: post #306
jacobriis wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you also aghast about Tupac? Oh my this rapping is outrageous! Mr. Tupac pull up your pants and clean up your language young man! And Gary isn’t a rap artist anyway! Well isn’t he?

> Are you also aghast about Tupac? Tupac was a gangster who'd been convicted of sexual assault. Personally I try to separate the artist from the human because humans are consistently awful creatures, and otherwise we'd never be able to enjoy any art ever. But I wouldn't be in support of Tupac running Y Combinator, or to be the CEO of pretty much any company, ever. I like Freddie Gibbs and Danny Brown. Both release mu…

The interesting thing about 2Pac is he grew up intelligent and was taught to respect women. Some of his earliest lyrics were very pro-women.

He changed his tone later in life as he was betrayed many times.

“Since we all came from a women, got our name from a women, and our game from a women. I wonder why we take from women, why we rape our women, do we hate our women? I think its time we killed for our women, be real to our women, try to heal our women, cus if we dont we'll have a race of babies that will hate the ladies, who make the babies. And since a man can't make one he has no right to tell a women when and where to create one”

Re: 'Stupid,' 'shameful:' Tech workers on Y Combinator CEO Garry Tan's rant

#385

Post by Kye »

mcv wrote: post #273
tempestn wrote: post #257

I'm a little bit aghast at all the comments saying this is normal or no big deal. Maybe it is normal (or at least common), but it shouldn't be. If you believe it's no big deal, I can't agree. I can see this kind of behaviour from adolescents, but adults should understand that words are meaningful and have consequences, and that even if you disagree with someone, they're still a human being who deserves some modicum o…

Yeah, apparently it was a pop reference, and that makes it okay? The problem with references is that not everybody gets the reference, and without that (and possibly even with) this is a death threat. And with today's highly polarized and volatile political situation, you need to be really careful with that. I've come to expect this sort of behaviour from random internet trolls, but a CEO really should know better. I…

I called someone a nerd once, but it turned out they didn't feel it had been "reclaimed" like a lot of people do. I apologized, and we had a nice chat about the paths language takes. It was nice. More situations like this should go like that, but it seems like doubling down, making excuses, or going on the attack is too easy.

Re: 'Stupid,' 'shameful:' Tech workers on Y Combinator CEO Garry Tan's rant

#386

Post by paulryanrogers »

Amezarak wrote: post #380
this_steve_j wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If his rapper persona had tweeted the lyrics to a diss track but clarified the theatrical kayfabe by breaking the fourth wall, that arguably could be less of a threat but still demonstrate questionable judgment, so I agree with you there. But violent rhetoric certainly increases the likelihood that others will escalate violence against the target, and so the risk (threat) of death and harm very much does increase as…

https://missionlocal.org/2024/01/y-combinator-ceo-garry-tans... > Half a dozen lawyers and judges told Mission Local that, however ill-advised, Tan’s comments do not rise to the legal definition of a death threat. Your interpretation involves a large change to how free speech has been legally defined in America for a long time. You may be interested in this case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio Wher…

Even a supreme court can be wrong sometimes. In the US that's been happening more often of late.

Re: 'Stupid,' 'shameful:' Tech workers on Y Combinator CEO Garry Tan's rant

#387

Post by mlrtime »

asddubs wrote: post #211
raffraffraff wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was the case pre Elon too. It's human nature. People are social creatures and they love to join some fight as long as they have their own comrades with them. My wife spent years on Twitter embroiled in a very long running and bitter political / rights issue. She was always thoughtful, insightful etc. She'd spend 10 minutes rewording a single tweet to make sure it got the real point across in a way that wasn't in…

thoughtful posts are boring, especially if you already agree with them. but people love a good spectacle

100% Agree, humans love drama. Especially when they aren't in it.

Natural responses to this would be "I don't like drama" and I would say the same, unfortunately this isn't the case for most of humans.

Re: 'Stupid,' 'shameful:' Tech workers on Y Combinator CEO Garry Tan's rant

#388

Post by gadders »

romwell wrote: post #368
gadders wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the dividing line, I'm OK with it. If "XXX of party YYY is a disgusting piece of human garbage" than I don't think that should be called terrorism.

Yes, that's the dividing line. Specific example that I linked: >Rallies organized by Likud and other right-wing groups featured depictions of Rabin in the crosshairs of a gun. In July 1995, Netanyahu led a mock funeral procession featuring a coffin and hangman's noose at an anti-Rabin rally where protesters chanted, "Death to Rabin". > Netanyahu denied any intention to incite violence Rabin was subsequently shot dead…

>>However, if XXX of party YYY subsequently starts getting death threats or other harrassment as a result of this statement being made, there is a problem.

How can you control that, though? Are people responsible for the mental state of all their followers? Or do they have to ensure that every utterance is so milquetoast that no action would ever come of it?

I'd have less of an issue if these rules were to be applied in a politically neutral fashion, but we know they never will be.

Re: 'Stupid,' 'shameful:' Tech workers on Y Combinator CEO Garry Tan's rant

#389

Post by greenie_beans »

one time i was on twitter and some asshole was tweeting mean, stupid stuff and i was like who is this asshole? what is e/acc? and then i realized he was the president of YC and it made me sad. and then i learned more about e/acc and i decided how dumb that shit is

Re: 'Stupid,' 'shameful:' Tech workers on Y Combinator CEO Garry Tan's rant

#390

Post by kyleamazza »

roenxi wrote: post #376
kyleamazza wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the situation you posit, that sort of action would come from a vote, not a single person's vigilante call for action. That is the difference. While I'd argue for a normal person that posting something like that would just fly under the radar and disappear into the aether of the internet, the same does not apply to someone who heads a large publicly visible company, and who posts publicly on an account associated (…

Well, 1. Votes come at the end of a process starting with someone calling for action. Has to be a first person to bring the idea up; and Twitter is as good a place for public debate as we have. (If only people could master the longform paragraph, or even essay-length debate and move to somewhere a bit more nuanced.) 2. Reflecting on the "Die slow motherfuckers" for a little while - Tan didn't actually make a call for…

To your last point, it might be more constructive to point out the specifics of why you are against corporate political speech as opposed to a somewhat-binary left/right of the political spectrum.

One benefit I see of it is normalizing the presence of historical out-groups (racial minorities, gender minorities, etc.) that have always existed in society.

But, in practice, the "support" can be paper-thin and the chasing of support from out-groups simply as a means to push profit margins is sometimes obvious and thinly-veiled enough to the point of growing discontent towards the groups that they're ostensibly supporting.

This sort of critique (even if I can't guarantee its accuracy) is a bit more nuanced and feels a little bit less cargo-culty than just left/right.

Post reply on HN