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UNRWA-Hamas Relations

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Re: UNRWA-Hamas Relations

#21

Post by light_hue_1 »

negidius wrote: post #18
light_hue_1 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is some nonsense. So if I work at Google which has 156k employees, everyone would be ok when 156 of my coworkers murdered my children one day? Just the cost of working in an organization this size! 50k people work at my university. So 50 of them are about to sneak into our house and murder us? Think about how stupid that line of thought is. If this was true for any organization we would have terrorist attacks al…

Gaza is a ghetto controlled by a genocidal group at war with another genocidal group. It's an active war zone. It's not comparable to Silicon Valley. How does the 0.001% of employees being accused of involvement in the October 7 attack compare with the adult population of Gaza? How does it compare with the adult population of Israel and involvement in attacks on Gazan civilians? I think you are holding UNRWA to an im…

The original person said that this is standard for any organization. So that's false then?

Now you're saying that it's normal for any organization in a war zone to include 0.1% terrorists in it?

That means that the UNCHR, which operates in the same environments, has had 20 ISIS members among their ranks that participated in terrorist attacks? Nope.

That UN peacekeeping missions like the one in Kosovo just went around murdering a few people here and there? Nope.

It's not true that to operate in these environments you need to include terrorists among your ranks. No one else does.

The UNRWA decided a long time ago that it was easier to work with Hamas. That's just unacceptable for an international organization.

Also, accusing Israel, who literally left Gaza to the locals and forcefully displaced its own people to do so, of genocide is absurd. Israel gave Gazans what they wanted: autonomy. They then elected a genocidal organization.

Re: UNRWA-Hamas Relations

#22

Post by gryzzly »

negidius wrote: post #20
gryzzly wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A relief agency that employs terrorists is being held to an impossible standard you think? It’s an impossible standard to not hire people who kill, kidnap and rape? And btw, 12 out 12000 is 0,1%. Also, it’s more like 10% btw, and 50% having personal family ties to Hamas.

Sorry, that should have been 0.1%. The claim about 10% doesn't seem to say much. What does it mean exactly for someone to be a "Hamas/PIJ operative"? Has UNRWA been told who these people are and what they have done? I suspect we will eventually find out if there was any truth behind the allegations against the 12 (or 13) specific people accused of involvement in the attack, but I doubt we will ever learn anything abo…

I don’t care what individuals boycott. I care about hundreds of millions of euros going for support of terrorism.

You know what’s relief? Medicine, food, re-settling.

You know what’s not relief? Teaching children to martyr for the profit of some disgusting Putin/Ayatollah friends.

Re: UNRWA-Hamas Relations

#23

Post by gryzzly »

negidius wrote: post #20
gryzzly wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A relief agency that employs terrorists is being held to an impossible standard you think? It’s an impossible standard to not hire people who kill, kidnap and rape? And btw, 12 out 12000 is 0,1%. Also, it’s more like 10% btw, and 50% having personal family ties to Hamas.

Sorry, that should have been 0.1%. The claim about 10% doesn't seem to say much. What does it mean exactly for someone to be a "Hamas/PIJ operative"? Has UNRWA been told who these people are and what they have done? I suspect we will eventually find out if there was any truth behind the allegations against the 12 (or 13) specific people accused of involvement in the attack, but I doubt we will ever learn anything abo…

so do you think that in a family where father is launching rockets indiscriminately at people, the mom will be teaching children about coexistance and building a peace loving community?

Re: UNRWA-Hamas Relations

#24

Post by negidius »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #21
negidius wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza is a ghetto controlled by a genocidal group at war with another genocidal group. It's an active war zone. It's not comparable to Silicon Valley. How does the 0.001% of employees being accused of involvement in the October 7 attack compare with the adult population of Gaza? How does it compare with the adult population of Israel and involvement in attacks on Gazan civilians? I think you are holding UNRWA to an im…

The original person said that this is standard for any organization. So that's false then? Now you're saying that it's normal for any organization in a war zone to include 0.1% terrorists in it? That means that the UNCHR, which operates in the same environments, has had 20 ISIS members among their ranks that participated in terrorist attacks? Nope. That UN peacekeeping missions like the one in Kosovo just went around…

12 or 13 employees in an organization being accused of terrorism or war crimes doesn't necessarily mean the organization is complicit in those acts, or could have foreseen the situation. This is especially the case in a region where such acts are common.

Did UNHCR operate in ISIS territory? I could be wrong, but I don't believe they ever did. The UN peacekeepers in Kosovo were not from the region, so that comparison doesn't make sense. Do you think it would be possible for UNRWA to recruit a sufficient number of people who do not already live in Gaza to move there and work for them, considering the rate at which UNRWA employees have been killed so far? You still have not said what UNRWA should have done differently.

My understanding is that the Israeli government never ended the occupation of Gaza in a way that could have allowed it to function as anything more than a ghetto or open-air prison. They forcefully removed their citizens from the territory, but did they ever end the blockade? Was there even a day when people in Gaza could import and export goods, generate electricity, or travel in and out of the territory without Israeli permission?

It makes no sense to solely blame the Palestinians for Hamas controlling Gaza when the Israeli government created the conditions that allowed them to seize power and the current prime minister of Israel has said: "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas [...] This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank."

Re: UNRWA-Hamas Relations

#25

Post by gryzzly »

negidius wrote: post #24
light_hue_1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original person said that this is standard for any organization. So that's false then? Now you're saying that it's normal for any organization in a war zone to include 0.1% terrorists in it? That means that the UNCHR, which operates in the same environments, has had 20 ISIS members among their ranks that participated in terrorist attacks? Nope. That UN peacekeeping missions like the one in Kosovo just went around…

12 or 13 employees in an organization being accused of terrorism or war crimes doesn't necessarily mean the organization is complicit in those acts, or could have foreseen the situation. This is especially the case in a region where such acts are common. Did UNHCR operate in ISIS territory? I could be wrong, but I don't believe they ever did. The UN peacekeepers in Kosovo were not from the region, so that comparison…

your understanding is wrong, learn more

Re: UNRWA-Hamas Relations

#26

Post by gryzzly »

negidius wrote: post #24
light_hue_1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original person said that this is standard for any organization. So that's false then? Now you're saying that it's normal for any organization in a war zone to include 0.1% terrorists in it? That means that the UNCHR, which operates in the same environments, has had 20 ISIS members among their ranks that participated in terrorist attacks? Nope. That UN peacekeeping missions like the one in Kosovo just went around…

12 or 13 employees in an organization being accused of terrorism or war crimes doesn't necessarily mean the organization is complicit in those acts, or could have foreseen the situation. This is especially the case in a region where such acts are common. Did UNHCR operate in ISIS territory? I could be wrong, but I don't believe they ever did. The UN peacekeepers in Kosovo were not from the region, so that comparison…

what you could maaaybe say is that it went to be occupied by hamas, if you are looking for reasons why Gaza's could not import and export goods etc.

Re: UNRWA-Hamas Relations

#27

Post by readthenotes1 »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #8
gryzzly wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah it’s cool that UN hires active terrorists and that the West sponsors that, is that you are saying? or are you saying this not true? What are you actually saying?

It's not true. Out of 13000 employees a dozen were found to have committed acts of terrorism and were fired immediately once this was found out. That is definitely not "hiring active terrorists". It's what any org of that size would do.

I'm amused that "they were fired immediately" seems a relevant mitigation to participating in murder, rape, and kidnapping.

If one believes the "occupied Palestine should be free" narrative, why should they be fired instead of promoted?

Re: UNRWA-Hamas Relations

#28

Post by enterprise_cog »

gryzzly wrote: post #16
gryzzly wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the intelligence shared by the official elected government of one western country to the governments of other western countries and the UN is "kind of propaganda". What is "objective observer" is supposed to believe, what kind of source would be persuasive for the objective observer? Honest question.

I want you to answer me, which bits are untrue in the following report: https://www.rootsmetals.com/blogs/news/unrwa-an-update Is it quotes of UN managers who say “being part of hamas is not a crime” in 2004? or is it the videos of UN equipment being used by terrorists during October 7? or the videos of hostages from the personal phones of UN workers? Please enlighten us!

Hamas has political orgs as well as militant, so that page isn’t the own you think it is. Not to mention why are you bringing up things from 20 years ago to try and prove a point about something now?

Edit: actually read it all and there is zero evidence provided. She says citations in her insta or patreon but there is nothing there. This is straight up hasbara propaganda.

Re: UNRWA-Hamas Relations

#29

Post by enterprise_cog »

gryzzly wrote: post #10
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not true. Out of 13000 employees a dozen were found to have committed acts of terrorism and were fired immediately once this was found out. That is definitely not "hiring active terrorists". It's what any org of that size would do.

point 1 in the linked document: "Out of approx. 12,000 UNRWA employees in GS, about 10% arc Hamas/PI operatives and about 50% are first degree relatives with a Hamas operative." and you know it’s not true, how? Most western governments, United States, Germany, Japan, Italy, the United Kingdom and France suspended funding based on intelligence that is worse than yours, so the world requires the source of information y…

[flagged]

Re: UNRWA-Hamas Relations

#30

Post by enterprise_cog »

gryzzly wrote: post #4
ametrau wrote: post #2

> Israel declassified an intelligence dossier detailing how the U.N. Palestinian refugee agency has allegedly been compromised by Hamas. This they have intel on. Other things... ah... they just didn't.

Israel did have whatever intelligence that it could gather and made a lot effort there – https://www.newsweek.com/israel-implemented-more-measures-pr... , and Hamas is to blame for the civilian deaths. Hamas also openly says that – “And we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.” https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/12/08/hamas-says-it-is-proud...

Your first link is some random opinion piece with zero evidence provided. Why are you posting that?
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