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Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

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Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#311

Post by mirkules »

frogpelt wrote: post #307
batista wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the long run the open market always wins. I've never seen an open market in the wild, much less it "always winning". You mean an open market like the "$1 trillion bailout not to collapse the whole economy" open market? Or an open market like "we enforce strict copyright laws to artificially limit each copyrighted product to one maker and it's pricing at his whims"? Or an open market with patents, for the same pu…

Each of the things you mentioned were instances in which the government interfered with the open market and made things worse. The free market left to itself would fix most of it's own problems (I say most because I think some regulation is necessary and good). But it requires patience to let the market work.

Not so fast: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Rockefeller#Monopoly

The free market left to itself will eventually converge into a monopoly.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#312

Post by batista »

frogpelt wrote: post #307
batista wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the long run the open market always wins. I've never seen an open market in the wild, much less it "always winning". You mean an open market like the "$1 trillion bailout not to collapse the whole economy" open market? Or an open market like "we enforce strict copyright laws to artificially limit each copyrighted product to one maker and it's pricing at his whims"? Or an open market with patents, for the same pu…

Each of the things you mentioned were instances in which the government interfered with the open market and made things worse. The free market left to itself would fix most of it's own problems (I say most because I think some regulation is necessary and good). But it requires patience to let the market work.

>Each of the things you mentioned were instances in which the government interfered with the open market and made things worse.

No, all the things that I mention are instances of actual markets. Were is this free market? If it's possible, why it hasn't been seen anywhere on earth?

>The free market left to itself would fix most of it's own problems

I mean, to reason about what the free market will do IF it exists has no value.

The free market, even if it was imposed by some power for one second, would have to be forcibly sustained by human agents --namely corporations, consumers, workers and the government. Nothing tells us that it would, in fact history teaches us otherwise.

One might as well say: "If everybody always was pro peace and love, and never did anything bad, we would have world peace and love".

Of course, but the whole point is in how to achieve that. So, to say "the free market would fix most of it's own problems" has zero value, if the #1 problem is how to create and sustain a free market itself.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#313

Post by guelo »

FuzzyDunlop wrote: post #221
guelo wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not capable? How about Google blocking Gmail, Youtube, Maps and Docs on iOS? They should do it now, Apple is playing hardball in the app store and the courts, time for Google to fight back.

No one in their right mind would punish their customers/users for making a particular product purchase decision. They would be cutting their own nose off to spite their face.

You mean like how Apple punishes its customers that want Dropbox apps?

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#314

Post by evan_ »

alan_cx wrote: post #247
taligent wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ive worked for Apple and it is no different to any other company. A policy was put in place that governs the rules around when apps should be rejected or not. The rules haven't really changed for a while now. The current version of Dropbox SDK violated the in app purchasing rules which app developers unwittingly used. Hence their apps were rejected. People forget that the employees who are auditing these apps are the…

Precisely, what's the offending rule?

11.13, as the second post in the linked forum thread states.

For an explanation: http://www.macstories.net/stories/11-13-and-the-dropbox-sdk/

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#316

Post by kylebrown »

philbarr wrote: post #268
batista wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the long run the open market always wins. I've never seen an open market in the wild, much less it "always winning". You mean an open market like the "$1 trillion bailout not to collapse the whole economy" open market? Or an open market like "we enforce strict copyright laws to artificially limit each copyrighted product to one maker and it's pricing at his whims"? Or an open market with patents, for the same pu…

That is a fantastic rant about the open market. Do you mind if I use it and claim it as my own someday?

as an alternative to a full-blown rant, just remind people that market fundamentalism died in the '08-'09 superbubble implosion. E.g. the new Dallas Fed report about enhancing "market discipline" and restoring "faith in market capitalism."

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#317

Post by mistermann »

mirkules wrote: post #311
frogpelt wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each of the things you mentioned were instances in which the government interfered with the open market and made things worse. The free market left to itself would fix most of it's own problems (I say most because I think some regulation is necessary and good). But it requires patience to let the market work.

Not so fast: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Rockefeller#Monopoly The free market left to itself will eventually converge into a monopoly.

> The free market left to itself will sometimes converge into a monopoly.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#318

Post by jasonlotito »

hyperbovine wrote: post #295
jasonlotito wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Nice one. I couldn't quite put my finger on what this reminded me of, but you nailed it: the Holocaust.

Ahh, the point is missed by the ignorant. I was not, in any way, comparing this at all to the holocaust. That you would think that says volumes about what your opinion means, however.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#319

Post by nupark2 »

stickfigure wrote: post #305
nupark2 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of UX and as a consumer, I'd rather the Dropbox API not open a browser or even another app. That is not the best UX, it doesn't provide a security advantage, and it's simply not being done to benefit the consumer. This may not be Apple's primary rational for rejecting these apps, but I'm glad they're doing it. As for the payment question, simply in terms of UX and as a consumer, I want only one payment provi…

Are you willing to pay 23%[1] more for the convenience of not having to open a window? Because Apple's 30% cut introduces a new cost into the system. Dunno about you, but I'll almost always take the 23% discount and click a few extra buttons. [1] 1 - (1/1.3) is the additional percentage that must be added to a price maintain constant revenue.[2] [2] To be pedantic, Apple also handles payment card processing, which is…

> Are you willing to pay 23%[1] more for the convenience of not having to open a window?

Yes. If the choice is between UX and cost, I'll almost always pay more.

Not everyone will, but the people that don't are less profitable customers, as Apple is demonstrating.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#320

Post by robomartin »

Well, the more fundamental problem is this business of Apple taking 30% of everything. I am not disputing their right to set the rules within their own ecosystem. No issues whatsoever there. It's their product and they deserve to do as they wish.

Having said that, that is not to say that I agree with their decision. For almost any business 30% is a huge percentage of gross. In most cases the margin is dangerously close to or lower than this number. What this means is that there are a whole host of goods and services that cannot be offered through the platform due to their fee structure.

Then again, it's their sandbox and their rules.

This is somewhere where companies such as Microsoft could make a significant dent if they keep their paws off the content creator's revenue stream (or take a very small bite). In my opinion a 5% "finder's fee" is reasonable. If they handle the financial transaction then there's the customary credit-card billing stuff.

Two things that iOS does not offer that someone could offer:

1- Less intrusive cut taken from revenues, as discussed above.

2- Open access to I/O, file system and various resources that Apple locks down tight.

As an example, if I wanted to design a general purpose iPhone to RS-232 serial cable, well, it's impossible. You can make one married to a specific application but you can't make one that's a plain-old open-to-all serial port converter. There are tons of applications in industry that could use such a cable, but Apple chokes the hardware side so tight that even something that simple is impossible.

Another example is the choke-hold on proprietary Bluetooth. I'd love to create apps for kids to use to control their Lego Mindstorms with an iPhone/iPod. Mindstorm blocks have built-in Bluetooth. Apple's version of Bluetooth, for various technical reasons, is not compatible with "normal" Bluetooth. The only way to do it is to purchase Apple-approved Bluetooth chips and get permission to build a device subject to their approval...but you can't build a generic device. In other words, you are building a specific speaker that uses this chip and these codes to identify you and the app. Period.

I feel that companies trying to compete with Apple are not seeing the elephant in the room: Closed vs. Open.

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