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Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

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Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#301

Post by batista »

mkr-hn wrote: post #270
batista wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the long run the open market always wins. I've never seen an open market in the wild, much less it "always winning". You mean an open market like the "$1 trillion bailout not to collapse the whole economy" open market? Or an open market like "we enforce strict copyright laws to artificially limit each copyrighted product to one maker and it's pricing at his whims"? Or an open market with patents, for the same pu…

You might want to hold off on the ideological rant and re-read. I think cageface was talking about application markets. I didn't know Google was using their market to bail people out and wage a secret resource war.

>You might want to hold off on the ideological rant and re-read. I think cageface was talking about application markets.

The same hold true for application markets. In any market where money are involved and parties with interests of their own can get a stronghold on the rules, the results are the same.

>I didn't know Google was using their market to bail people out and wage a secret resource war.

Well, pushing their own apps to users with "picks" and front-page promotion is akin to a bailout. They can restrict apps that compete with their core businesses in a snap, they can change the rules of the game anytime, etc. They use it to do whatever offers them a competitive advantage.

Apple's marketplace is an even better example, as it is more closed. Google cannot close the Android marketplace at the same level, because they cannot do all the stuff Apple pulls and still attract developers away from more lucrative iOS at the same time (developers are the "scarce resource" here).

Btw: "ideological rant" implies that something I said re: "free markets" does not hold true and I say it because of my ideology. Can you point to it? Else it's not "ideological", it's mere empirical observation.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#302

Post by gavanwoolery »

fromhet wrote: post #294
gavanwoolery wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my view, it only gets BETTER -- hopefully this is the beginning wakeup call that will get people off of OSX. This has been going on for a long time too, Apple slowly making things more annoying for its users. Especially its developers. (For the record, I own 2 Macs, an iPhone, two Android devices, an iPod, and a PC, so I am not really biased in any given direction...)

With "PC", you mean Windows. Right?

Yep, a bit of a vague term, but PC has kind of become a synonym for "Windows Machine" -- even though a Mac or Linux box is technically a PC as well...

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#304

Post by politician »

sbuk wrote: post #199
politician wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... they have a monopoly on the end of the market where there is money? Why is this a distinction?

You can't have a monopoly on a portion of a market. The clue is in the first two syllables.

Does a market exist where no money is being exchanged? If you are an abusive provider of things that you give away, are you a monopolist? If there are two providers of some product X where the first provider gives it away and the second provider sells it, is market share measured in units a meaningful metric of the economic activity generated by this product?

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#305

Post by stickfigure »

nupark2 wrote: post #170
davepeck wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's awful, and it's painful for everyone -- not just those using the DropBox APIs. The origins of these clauses are with iBooks and the Kindle app for iOS. I wrote about it in a recent blog post: http://davepeck.org/2011/11/04/kindle-clauses/

In terms of UX and as a consumer, I'd rather the Dropbox API not open a browser or even another app. That is not the best UX, it doesn't provide a security advantage, and it's simply not being done to benefit the consumer. This may not be Apple's primary rational for rejecting these apps, but I'm glad they're doing it. As for the payment question, simply in terms of UX and as a consumer, I want only one payment provi…

Are you willing to pay 23%[1] more for the convenience of not having to open a window? Because Apple's 30% cut introduces a new cost into the system. Dunno about you, but I'll almost always take the 23% discount and click a few extra buttons.

[1] 1 - (1/1.3) is the additional percentage that must be added to a price maintain constant revenue.[2]

[2] To be pedantic, Apple also handles payment card processing, which is ~3%. So the difference is really 1-(1.03/1.30) = 20.8%

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#306

Post by creamyhorror »

baddox wrote: post #169
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Competition law, known in the United States as antitrust law, is law that promotes or maintains market competition by regulating anti-competitive conduct by companies."[1] One could argue that rejecting apps that make use of (or in this case encourage signup to) Dropbox is anti-competitive conduct since Dropbox is a competitor of iCloud (isn't it?) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_law

One could also argue that producing a better quality product at a lower price is anticompetitive. That's why I've never understood laws banning "anticompetitive behavior."

Not really - producing a better quality product at a lower price is pretty much the definition of (successful) competition. Anticompetitive would be actions preventing such a company from winning more of the market.

In this case, Apple's IAP rules are preventing apps from selling products/services at their 'natural' prices in rival marketplaces, which could be considered anticompetitive depending on the various factors involved.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#307

Post by frogpelt »

batista wrote: post #261
cageface wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather Apple give developers the choice and let user preference sort it out. In the long run the open market always wins.

> In the long run the open market always wins. I've never seen an open market in the wild, much less it "always winning". You mean an open market like the "$1 trillion bailout not to collapse the whole economy" open market? Or an open market like "we enforce strict copyright laws to artificially limit each copyrighted product to one maker and it's pricing at his whims"? Or an open market with patents, for the same pu…

Each of the things you mentioned were instances in which the government interfered with the open market and made things worse.

The free market left to itself would fix most of it's own problems (I say most because I think some regulation is necessary and good). But it requires patience to let the market work.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#308

Post by cynicalkane »

mkr-hn wrote: post #270
batista wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the long run the open market always wins. I've never seen an open market in the wild, much less it "always winning". You mean an open market like the "$1 trillion bailout not to collapse the whole economy" open market? Or an open market like "we enforce strict copyright laws to artificially limit each copyrighted product to one maker and it's pricing at his whims"? Or an open market with patents, for the same pu…

You might want to hold off on the ideological rant and re-read. I think cageface was talking about application markets. I didn't know Google was using their market to bail people out and wage a secret resource war.

Why is this downvoted?

There's no reason to hijack a fairly specific discussion with a much broader ideological rant. This sort of thing has been happening on HN lately and it bothers me. It takes a potentially interesting conversation and turns it into an ideology measuring contest.

I understand that the theory of free markets in general might be applicable here, but the point is the way the GP is framing the debate it can't be resolved without much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#310

Post by salimmadjd »

What is the big deal? Lets have some context here first.

One, apple is very clear about their rules. If you're surprised by them, it's really your fault for building a product without reading the guideline.

Two, lets just remember, not long ago, how difficult it was to build or create anything for mobile prior to apple.

Dropbox should just strike a deal with apple quick and give apple their 30% cut, instead of playing the victim here. The other option is the android and google drive, which I'm sure dropbox would rather not see becoming to big.

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