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America Is Missing Out on the Best Electric Cars

theatlantic.com

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Re: America Is Missing Out on the Best Electric Cars

#41

Post by aurareturn »

leoh wrote: post #39

You know what I’m glad to be missing out on? How cruel and intense and demanding China is on its middle and lower classes that allows them to produce goods this cheaply.

Don't have a choice. China fell behind for 200 years, part of it internal conflict, and part of it colonialism/European conquests. It takes generations to pull out of poverty and unfortunately, a lot of Chinese this generation still pays the price.

Part of the issue is that the US, G7, and other developed countries do not want China to become a service/tech export company, which would greatly improve living conditions for the middle and lower class that you mentioned. They want China to continue to be the world's manufacturer so that they have less competition. The public smearing, anti-China propaganda is part of this strategy in my opinion. Hence, this article about how Chinese EVs can't come to the US despite how good they've become.

Re: America Is Missing Out on the Best Electric Cars

#42

Post by aurareturn »

My previous comment on what I saw when I visited Shenzen last year:

I'm quite convinced that China is going to dominate the EV market in the next decade. I've been strolling around Shenzen for the last 2 weeks. By my estimation, roughly 50%-70% of cars on the road are already EVs. 100% of my Didi (China's Uber) rides have been EVs. I could be wrong but Shenzen might have banned new ICE cars already.

I went into a mall in Shenzen and noticed that Huawei had a store and they made electric cars.[0] This was a shock to me because I always thought that Huawei was a phone and networking company. I was impressed with the thoughtfulness of the interior and the build quality of the Huawei cars. The build quality felt better than Teslas.

The shock factor is that a phone/networking company is capable of pushing out decent quality EVs already. It seems like there is a huge build up of EV talent here along with an unmatched supply chain to mass manufacture EV cars.

So while Tesla is struggling to mass produce the cybertruck, China doesn't seem like it's having any issues mass producing EVs. Heck, US media made me think that mass manufacturing EVs is as hard as building the large hadron collider. But in China, every random company and grandma seem to be designing and producing EVs.

PS. It's not just Shenzen. I also went to more rural places in Guangdong and there were still around 20-30% EVs on the road. Guangzhou, another Tier 1 city next to Shenzen was probably around 30 - 40% EVs by my estimation.

[0]It seems like Huawei makes the platform of the car I saw (Aito M7) but the brand of the car is Aito.

Re: America Is Missing Out on the Best Electric Cars

#43

Post by aurareturn »

biotopia wrote: post #8
swalling wrote: post #2

We don't need a $1,200 Chinese electric deathtrap to accelerate EV buying, we need a better charging network. Range anxiety and reliability are the factors that have put EV purchases in a slump (not to mention interest rates). The article itself acknowledges this briefly: "one of the biggest challenges that EVs face here is not the cars; it’s the chargers. In America, charging stations are still too hard to find, and…

agreed, also, what is with all these articles written/submitted in favor of Chinese EVs in US? do they not know we are currently fighting an indirect war with China, with China supplying Russia's invasion against Europe being supplied by US? do they not know China is basically the backer for Houthi, Iran, North Korea, and Russia?

  agreed, also, what is with all these articles written/submitted in favor of Chinese EVs in US? do they not know we are currently fighting an indirect war with China, with China supplying Russia's invasion against Europe being supplied by US? do they not know China is basically the backer for Houthi, Iran, North Korea, and Russia?
A single article that doesn't portray China negatively in the US media and people are going crazy.

Re: America Is Missing Out on the Best Electric Cars

#45

Post by matthewdgreen »

biotopia wrote: post #8
swalling wrote: post #2

We don't need a $1,200 Chinese electric deathtrap to accelerate EV buying, we need a better charging network. Range anxiety and reliability are the factors that have put EV purchases in a slump (not to mention interest rates). The article itself acknowledges this briefly: "one of the biggest challenges that EVs face here is not the cars; it’s the chargers. In America, charging stations are still too hard to find, and…

agreed, also, what is with all these articles written/submitted in favor of Chinese EVs in US? do they not know we are currently fighting an indirect war with China, with China supplying Russia's invasion against Europe being supplied by US? do they not know China is basically the backer for Houthi, Iran, North Korea, and Russia?

China is kicking our ass in the technologies of the future (batteries, EV, renewable energy, nuclear.) If you believe China is a threat, then you should absolutely be reading articles like this one. Historically the US won wars by leading in the manufacture of this tech, and we should be fully aware of the consequences of losing that edge. It’s still not too late for us to do something about it.

Re: America Is Missing Out on the Best Electric Cars

#46

Post by JumpCrisscross »

WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #38
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he needs trade barriers for space Sorry, what? SpaceX is a generation ahead of any other launch vehicle in use or development the world around.

> SpaceX told the U.S. Trade Representative in a letter dated Dec. 10 and first reported last week that European subsidies to Arianespace, Europe's primary space launch provider, created an "imbalanced competitive advantage that threatens fair trade". https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1QF2AR/ They want to hinder competition It's moving very fast, yet you don't hear about them attempts here in the west https://mp…

> want to hinder competition

Of course. Everyone does. If you don’t, you’re an idiot or a non-participant in our market economy.

Very different from SpaceX “need[ing] trade barriers.”

> here in the west

ArianeSpace is French/EU.

> wouldn't be able to be competitive if the government didn't offer grants/benefits for EVs

SpaceX would. They wouldn’t exist without them. But their marginal economics don’t depend on them.

Re: America Is Missing Out on the Best Electric Cars

#47

Post by jwells89 »

accountinhn wrote: post #26
jwells89 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not $1200 but something in like an electrified Toyota Yaris/Mazda 2 hatchback the ballpark of $15000-$25000 sure would be nice. I like the look of the 2024 Fiat 500e but that $34000 MSRP is difficult to justify for a practical little town errand car.

Bolt EV is around $27K and believe Nissan Leaf is also in the same price range. So, with taxes you are look at max $30K. If you qualify for the federal tax credit, then you should be able to get that well within your price range.

Bolt is discontinued and dealerships in my area don’t sell them for under $31k. Leaf also isn’t long for this world, is based on an ancient platform, and starts at $30k in my area. I don’t qualify for the tax credit.

Re: America Is Missing Out on the Best Electric Cars

#48

Post by hollywood_court »

lmz wrote: post #33
anon-sre-srm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yell at Toyota to go through homologation because they aren't up to US standards.

It's not a standards issue as the Lexus LX is basically the same thing, they probably think it's better to only sell the Lexus to Americans.

The LX always sold better than the Land Cruiser for some reason. I see 100 and 200 Series LXs all over my town. I know of dozens of each. But I am only aware of maybe 10 total Land Cruisers.

When I ran an import repair shop, we had plenty of clients with the LX but myself and 2 other clients were the only ones with Land Cruisers.

Re: America Is Missing Out on the Best Electric Cars

#49

Post by anonreeeeplor »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #5
anonreeeeplor wrote: post #3

Elon Musk needs trade barriers to remain in place. And he needs trade barriers for space and robotics. Buying Twitter, the primary location for political disagreements and communications, is a sort of cover bet to negotiate later. Interesting to note Trump staying away from Twitter altogether. He likely doesn’t want to give anyone, including Musk, and leverage or perceived leverage over him. What is interesting is he…

> he needs trade barriers for space Sorry, what? SpaceX is a generation ahead of any other launch vehicle in use or development the world around.

Chinese will catch them soon, the way the Chinese caught their electric car efforts.

Having an entire nation state level effort, with far more capital and far better trained workforce, which China has, and the ability to copy the leader.

China will surpass SpaceX in a handful of years. The process is already underway.

In the whole it might be a good thing because it will probably force the United States to actually give a sh*t about competing in space, and subsidize SpaceX heavily.

Re: America Is Missing Out on the Best Electric Cars

#50

Post by leoh »

aurareturn wrote: post #41
leoh wrote: post #39

You know what I’m glad to be missing out on? How cruel and intense and demanding China is on its middle and lower classes that allows them to produce goods this cheaply.

Don't have a choice. China fell behind for 200 years, part of it internal conflict, and part of it colonialism/European conquests. It takes generations to pull out of poverty and unfortunately, a lot of Chinese this generation still pays the price. Part of the issue is that the US, G7, and other developed countries do not want China to become a service/tech export company, which would greatly improve living condition…

Ok cool
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