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How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

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Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple C&Ds?! You make me realize I might not be living the adventure I should be.

Over the years, I've collected quite a few C&Ds from various projects: - Google for creating a mention tracker I was distributing as a mac dashboard widget - Netflix for creating a DVD barcode to Netflix queue ios app (they were trying to to antagonize their retail partners too much at the time apparently) - Microsoft for abusing some of their early text to speech DLL's for a really crappy RSS to Audio "podcast" app…

Shame, those all sound incredibly useful.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#182

Man, fuck Facebook. The one-off C&D sent to anyone who appears to be using your trademark I can understand. Sending the guy a bill for $30,000? Now that involved human forethought. Something seems to be going on over at the Fsckbook legal department and it isn't good .

Yeah, it's called a party. Their office probably blows through $30k of party supplies in a week.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#183
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, since you failed to avoid the snarky "hire an attorney" thing, I'm going to ask: how much would it reasonably cost to hire an attorney for advice on this? Assuming the contacting lawyer is on shaky ground. No "it depends" please, a ballpark. Maybe it's cheaper to have one on retainer. How much per month, if like a normal citizen your only daily legal risks are random megacorporations threatening you? Should eve…

Depending on whose advice you value, Deviant Ollam has a video on YouTube entitled "Lawyer, Passport, Locksmith, Gun"[1] where he makes the argument that yeah, you probably should have a lawyer as part of a broader personal risk-reduction strategy. (I understand folk might take particular issue with that last as part of "risk reduction", but I hope that doesn't detract from the earlier parts of the strategy) [1]: htt…

if your risk reduction strategy entails a gun and a passport, you probabably don't need a lawyer who will tell you not to use either to deal with your legal risks.

Q: is the locksmith for you getting into other people's stuff, or keeping people out of your stuff? Wondering if we're going for a trifecta here.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the years, I've collected quite a few C&Ds from various projects: - Google for creating a mention tracker I was distributing as a mac dashboard widget - Netflix for creating a DVD barcode to Netflix queue ios app (they were trying to to antagonize their retail partners too much at the time apparently) - Microsoft for abusing some of their early text to speech DLL's for a really crappy RSS to Audio "podcast" app…

Shame, those all sound incredibly useful.

They didn’t say they ceased and or desisted!

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#186

I once received a cease-and-desist from my employer, who was a big tech company! I had written a small shareware app called JazAwake. It was designed to stop the Iomega Jaz drive from spinning down every two minutes or so. They did not know who I was but the stakes were instantly very high. If they filed a suit, they would uncover my identity, realize I worked for them, and terminate my employment. To make matters wo…

Why did your employer have a problem with your small shareware app though? I don't see why anyone could possibly get fired over something like a drive utility.

My guess is that GP's knowledge that led him to be able to create the shareware was derived from his employment, and quite possibly involved trade secrets. Creating and releasing software related to his work likely violated his employment agreement.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#187
post #113
post #17

This is a great writeup. I am not a lawyer, but I've received several C&Ds for various things over the decades. The first one scared me to death. The second and subsequent ones did not, because I understood what they were: just the company saying "I don't like what you're doing". When I receive a C&D, the first thing I do is talk to my attorney and go over what the C&D is complaining about. If I think I'm doing somet…

It's weird to me that big tech hasn't thought about offering a financial reward with C&D's. "We will pay you $10000 if you C&D" seems like pennies to them, much less than the cost of legal fees, a nice amount of cash for a personal project that hasn't monetized yet. Or a job "We will give you a job offer to work on X if you C&D your own work on X" also seems like a great strategy. If someone has already demonstrated…

At the risk of violating some rules/conventions here about generated content, I put the question to GPT4 and got some rather reasonable answers. It's enough to convince me not to do what you suggested.

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Offering payment to an individual or entity to cease an activity they should not be engaging in can introduce several disadvantages and potential legal complexities compared to a standard cease and desist letter. Here are some considerations:

- Precedent for Payment: Offering payment for the cessation of an infringing activity could set an unwanted precedent. It suggests that compliance with the law is negotiable and can be bought, potentially encouraging the same or other parties to infringe in the future with the expectation of receiving payment to stop.

- Admission of Weakness: Offering money might be interpreted as a sign that you are not confident in the legal strength of your claim. This could embolden the infringer or weaken your position in any subsequent legal proceedings.

- Contractual Obligation: If the other party accepts the offer, it creates a contractual agreement. If the infringer accepts the payment but continues the activity, or if there's a disagreement over whether the activity has ceased, you may have to engage in contract enforcement rather than straightforward infringement litigation, which could complicate matters.

- Tax and Financial Implications: The payment could have tax implications for both parties and might also affect the financial statements of a company if either party is a business.

- Mitigation of Harm: Paying the infringer doesn't address any harm that has already occurred. A cease and desist letter often includes demands for remedies or damages for past infringement, which would not typically be covered by a simple payment to stop the activity.

- Negotiation Power: Once you've put a monetary offer on the table, it can be difficult to withdraw or reduce that offer without weakening your negotiating position.

- Legal Interpretation: The offer of payment might be interpreted by the court as an acknowledgment that the infringed party is aware that their rights are not clear-cut or may even lack merit, thereby potentially undermining the legal basis for their claim.

- Public Perception: If the offer and its acceptance become public, it might be seen as a company or individual buying their way out of a legal dispute, which could affect public perception or brand reputation.

- Binding Effect: If the offer is accepted, the agreement may prevent you from pursuing legal action for any past infringement, depending on the terms of the agreement.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#188
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> read historical case law on the topic in question Is this even at all accessible to anyone who isn't already in a major law firm? I'm assuming it requires some sort of thousand-dollar subscription to an exploitative publishing house?

You just need a law library nearby. Most moderate-sized cities have them. If not, call the city or county clerk and ask, they often have access at the courthouse to PACER and friends.

Any big case you want to read about, and many more, will be on RECAP (pacer backwards).

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/

Put it in your deepweb toolbox.

You can also get some free credit every quarter on PACER. With the recap extension, you can contribute that to RECAP automagically.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#189
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the proper course of action if you don't have an attorney?

I'm going to avoid the snarky "hire an attorney" answer but once you get past that necessary first step I do have a few tips: * get comfortable reading legal documents, this will allow you to have more intelligent conversations with your attorney * don't let your attorney make your business decisions, one of their jobs is to point out risks, one of your jobs (owner/ceo/leadership) is to figure out how to mitigate ris…

> don't let your attorney make your business decisions, one of their jobs is to point out risks, one of your jobs (owner/ceo/leadership) is to figure out how to mitigate risk but that is not the same thing as avoiding all risks

Man I wish the leadership team at the last startup I did understood that. They were too chickenshit to do anything their lawyer cautioned them against, and as a result we took no risks and got nowhere.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#190
post #17

This is a great writeup. I am not a lawyer, but I've received several C&Ds for various things over the decades. The first one scared me to death. The second and subsequent ones did not, because I understood what they were: just the company saying "I don't like what you're doing". When I receive a C&D, the first thing I do is talk to my attorney and go over what the C&D is complaining about. If I think I'm doing somet…

What's the proper course of action if you don't have an attorney?

You are entitled to sue to get a court to state that you have the legal right to do something. Probably overkill, but I bet it would get a surprised pikachu face from the C&D sending company.

Now whether it's a good idea to sue without an attorney, I have no idea. I genuinely don't.

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