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How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

adaobi.substack.com

201–210 of 225 posts

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#201

The article made me think of General Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord's officer classification: "I distinguish four types. There are clever, hardworking, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and hardworking; their place is the General Staff. The next ones are stupid and lazy; they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever an…

Nice, like that! I am thinking is in IT industry 'too clever and hardworking'the same as 'stupid and hardworking'?

> I am thinking is in IT industry 'too clever and hardworking' the same as 'stupid and hardworking'?

The thought of someone stupid turning out the most code in a team used to make me shudder. But then I got some not so bright people on my team.

It's true that stupid left to their own devices turns out terrible code. But they have their strengths. Janitors for example are often classed as stupid, but a stupid and hardworking janitor will do a far better job than of the other types.

The key insight (and this was pointed out to me by of all people someone in marketing, designing campaigns to make products appeal to certain crowds), is janitors like routine. I guess stupid doesn't like to be made to think, they like to do what they excel at, which is doing. So the key to making it work is the smart (and preferably lazy) people design the routine, and the stupid execute it. You can rely on stupid and hardworking to do it consistently and quickly.

In programming terms, this means you need strong coding rules, lots of examples, thorough reviews which takes enormous amount of patience. A smart programmer will cafe at the oversight required, as it prevents exploration of ideas. Give stupid that and something remarkable happens - they produce very good code. Why is it good? Because it's so simple. Anyone can understand it. It takes almost no effort to read.

An even more surprising thing happens when you get them to design UI's, as in "I want a form that takes in X and does Y with it". Again, what they come us with is so simple, my grandmother could use it. Stupid people don't design complex things. Give them anything more complex than a single form and you are asking for trouble of course, as they can't zoom out and pull in the big picture, then zoom back in and execute it.

So it's horses for courses. Stupid hardworking take a lot of investment in management time. They reward that in the long term by turning out a lot of code. But you need a cookie cutter task that lasts for years at least to make the investment pay back. They don't work in a consulting where novel short term tasks are the rule. But you'll find them happily toiling away in bureaucracies, and being paid stuff all for the privilege of being the backbone of the organisation. Which explains the why stupidest thinks we have to deal with in life are bureaucracy. The people you are dealing with aren't paid to think.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#202
I disagree with everything the author says.

You do not have to be successful in any time frame.

Just put in tine learning.

Make one small goal after another, and burn hours until you are pretty good.

People who are "natural athletes" often just spent their childhood practicing every sport they knew about. "Natural engineers" aften spent their childhood playing with test equipment. They git good through many years of practice not through being loud or audacious.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#203

This is just good advice in general. The number one thing that has led to my career success (albeit at the cost of much stress) is following my Grandfather's adage: "Someone has to do it, and it might as well be me." I struggle day-to-day to convey to engineers that a grind is required, and sometimes work just needs to be done. People would rather take 60 hours writing a script, instead of just doing work that takes…

You have to be careful though, otherwise you could end up being the guy who looks after all the printers.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#204
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be new here, hard work beating talent is an extremely popular topic. People mostly reads these and see themselves as the superior side, if it is an article about hard work beating talent people see themselves as the hard worker, if it is an article about smart people doing X then of course the reader is on the smart side etc. So an article on how most hard work is wasted since it wasn't well thought out woul…

No there's a lot of articles on IQ and intelligence. Less on hard work. Mainly because most people on here are programmers and the job and interview is related to intelligence. People who take pride in there programming skill think they're intelligent. As a programmer myself I think most programmers are average. Programming isn't a very hard job imo. It doesn't require a huge amount of intelligence hence the reason w…

>As a programmer myself I think most programmers are average.

I would be very surprised if that was the case, especially now that a CS degree is a requirement most programming jobs.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#205
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How sad would it be if most or all of my "high reward" tasks are anti-"severe punishment?"

Are you implying that there is some other way to live? Because if so, then please help me find it lol.

I hope there is some other way but clearly I don't know it.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#206
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we should first-line treat people with addictive, known long-term harmful medicines rather than try things that have a known long-term safe profile simply because it's understood to be less likely to work? That's just bonkers to me. I'll try every single safe potential treatment before resorting to higher evidenced unsafe treatment. Also this "wakefulness" doesn't mean much. It's much like ADHD doesn't mean much -…

If Modafinil is truly effective, then why is it not commonly used? The fact that is less commonly used seems to point two potential reasons: 1. It's safety profile is actually not that much better the what is commonly used for ADHD. 2. Its efficacy is significantly worse than what is commonly used, and thus, there is no point in using it. > There is no chemical being measured when we diagnose these medications and th…

> 1. It's safety profile is actually not that much better the what is commonly used for ADHD.

Modafinil is sold over the counter in many countries. Your claim does not reflect modern research findings. It's really not even close.

> 2. Its efficacy is significantly worse than what is commonly used, and thus, there is no point in using it.

efficacy for whom? ADHD isn't an infection that is treated with specific antibiotics. It's symptoms that arise in individuals with potentially drastically different root causes. For some people modafinil is effective for treating ADHD symptoms.

Speaking of other countries, Japan won't prescribe methylphenidate for ADHD - only issues prescriptions for sleep disorders. Most ADHD medications aren't even legal to bring into Japan, much less get prescriptions for them.

I think you'll find there isn't some global consensus on ADHD and medications and there's a good reason for that. ADHD treatment is barely science.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#207
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your parent never mentions overtime. Personally I agree with his assessment and none of it requires overtime. Lack of effort literally means people that show the level of effort your reply seems to suggest you are putting in. A normal level of effort, not just doing exactly as much as you need not to get fired is generally enough to stand out and have good results (output and pay wise). No overtime required. A good l…

Hard disagree, bruteforcing work for rewards is waaay sub optimal in the vast majority of cases. Most people are better off interviewing, job hopping and always-be-leaving and/or social engineering their careers. Note, I'm talking about competent people who can hold a job. Any unit of effort put in over not-getting-fired is almost 100% wasted (financial) reward wise.

We may have very different ideas about all this. And different experiences and expectations of life.

I'm not sure what "bruteforcing" means here. I definitely had people on my team that were of the "just-enough-not-to-get-fired" variety.

In most places they would not have been fired - agree. But they worked for me and I expect you to actually be doing your job and not just kissing up to the boss. I don't expect you to do overtime and I will protect you and the rest of the team from said overtime BS. I'm really really allergic to unrealistic BS "deadlines" and I'm super extra allergic to deadlines that get set because someone else did not do their job properly (like a PM not planning properly and such).

The general "pretend to be busy for 60h a week" culture is something I despise. Put in a regular 40h (or if that's your place 35h, 37.5h etc.) of work but I don't want to "see" you be on Facebook (or HN for that matter) on work time. And you have to actually display competence when we have a technical conversation. There are so many people being passed off as intermediate to senior level that just do the bare minimum not to get fired that are perpetual juniors with 20 years of experience. The worst guy was actually one of those and he really thought he could weasel his way out of actually doing work with the typical "I ran into issue X and Y and Z and it took forever to solve them" dance. For things that literally take 5 minutes to solve for someone that is not just pretending. Provably. So yeah, not with me. Go work for someone else.

And yes, I got to this place by - horror, shock - actually doing good work. I've gotten 20% raises without asking for them by just doing a regular 40h week doing my normal work.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#208
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Modafinil is truly effective, then why is it not commonly used? The fact that is less commonly used seems to point two potential reasons: 1. It's safety profile is actually not that much better the what is commonly used for ADHD. 2. Its efficacy is significantly worse than what is commonly used, and thus, there is no point in using it. > There is no chemical being measured when we diagnose these medications and th…

> 1. It's safety profile is actually not that much better the what is commonly used for ADHD. Modafinil is sold over the counter in many countries. Your claim does not reflect modern research findings. It's really not even close. > 2. Its efficacy is significantly worse than what is commonly used, and thus, there is no point in using it. efficacy for whom? ADHD isn't an infection that is treated with specific antibio…

> Modafinil is sold over the counter in many countries. Your claim does not reflect modern research findings. It's really not even close.

What I was trying to say was that there are to potential reasons why Modifinil is not commonly used for ADHD. By potential reasons, I meant those two reasons might some of the reasons that could be an explanation, but that does not mean those two reasons are the definitive reasons nor the only reasons.

Now, I would agree from what I have read that Modifinil is probably safer than Amphetamine or MPH based medications in terms of addiction safety. Though all the reports of SJS and other issues do not seem like it's some perfectly safe medication either.

> efficacy for whom?

A large enough population size across multiple studies to deem it a safe and effective treatment -- like all other medications approved by some kind of governing regulatory agency. The approval of one medication does not disprove the efficacy of other medications.

> For some people modafinil is effective for treating ADHD symptoms.

Sure, the same can be said for caffeine, nicotine, plenty of other substances, exercise, etc.. I understand there is an individual aspect to all medication conditions. However, a medical system, at least none I have ever used, curtail all treatments to an individual. There seems to be more of an procedural approach to medical treatments in which the results are "good enough for most people."

> Speaking of other countries, Japan won't prescribe methylphenidate for ADHD - only issues prescriptions for sleep disorders. Most ADHD medications aren't even legal to bring into Japan, much less get prescriptions for them.

Are claiming that Japan based this decision on medical research and not [historical] social issues which plagued them? I would not cite Japan's drug laws, as well as plenty of other laws in their legal system, as the paragon for the world to follow either.

> I think you'll find there isn't some global consensus on ADHD and medications and there's a good reason for that.

I would imagine it's quite difficult to find global consensus on plenty of medical practices.

> ADHD treatment is barely science.

This we can agree on.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#209
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. It's safety profile is actually not that much better the what is commonly used for ADHD. Modafinil is sold over the counter in many countries. Your claim does not reflect modern research findings. It's really not even close. > 2. Its efficacy is significantly worse than what is commonly used, and thus, there is no point in using it. efficacy for whom? ADHD isn't an infection that is treated with specific antibio…

> Modafinil is sold over the counter in many countries. Your claim does not reflect modern research findings. It's really not even close. What I was trying to say was that there are to potential reasons why Modifinil is not commonly used for ADHD. By potential reasons, I meant those two reasons might some of the reasons that could be an explanation, but that does not mean those two reasons are the definitive reasons…

I think we mostly agree, but this is a particularly interesting point

> I would not cite Japan's drug laws, as well as plenty of other laws in their legal system, as the paragon for the world to follow either.

Japan is one of the (if not _the_) healthiest countries in the world. Further, US has one of the worst medical malpractice rates in the developed world.

Why would we _not_ cite Japans drug laws or any of their medical practices as a paragon for the world? Certainly we would in relation the US healthcare.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#210
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Modafinil is sold over the counter in many countries. Your claim does not reflect modern research findings. It's really not even close. What I was trying to say was that there are to potential reasons why Modifinil is not commonly used for ADHD. By potential reasons, I meant those two reasons might some of the reasons that could be an explanation, but that does not mean those two reasons are the definitive reasons…

I think we mostly agree, but this is a particularly interesting point > I would not cite Japan's drug laws, as well as plenty of other laws in their legal system, as the paragon for the world to follow either. Japan is one of the (if not _the_) healthiest countries in the world. Further, US has one of the worst medical malpractice rates in the developed world. Why would we _not_ cite Japans drug laws or any of their…

> Japan is one of the (if not _the_) healthiest countries in the world.

Sure, I could believe that. I have never been (always wanted to go). I am quite fond of some of the more romanticized elements of their culture, but I would not claim to know a lot about Japanese culture. So, I imagine my expectations would not intersect reality. However, I do love my pure bred Shiba Inu, so they can cultivate some great dogs. ;)

How much of Japan being the healthiest country can be directly attributed to their drug laws and healthcare system?

Sure, both might contribute, but I also wonder how things like having walkable cities, a sense of community/social homogeneity, dietary differences, genetic differences, etc. also play a factor.

I'm sure their healthcare and drugs laws do not make most individuals worse off. Is healthcare socialized in Japan or is it private? (I guess I could look this up). But I would imagine this could be a factor too.

How litigious are people in Japan compared to the rest of the world? I could be wrong, but I want to believe people in the US are probably more litigious than in Japan, but I have nothing to base that on other than unfounded stereotypes.

Alcohol is more dangerous than most commonly used drugs, but it's perfectly legal in Japan. So is tobacco. So, clearly what is deemed acceptable is arbitrary and based on cultural values and not public safety.

If Japan wasn't so tweaked in the 50s and 60s, then perhaps they might have a different outlook on substances?

While we are on this topic how does Japan view addiction? Is it viewed as a moral failing or a disease or something else?

Also, somewhat irrelevant, but do you want to know something ironic? Did you know a Japanese company, Takeda Pharmaceutical Company, is the proud owner of a significant amount of R&D and rights of the most popular stimulant medications? They merged with Shire in 2019, which is the company that R&D'd Adderall XR, Vyvanse, Mydaysis, Daytrana, etc..

They now pocket money off drugs they cannot even legally touch in the country they are headquartered in.

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