How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent • Hacker News Board

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#191

Post by corobo » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 7:33 PM UTC

corobo wrote: post #157

Jensson wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doing taxes and bills are not what I consider high reward more like moderate penalty Try not paying bills or filing your taxes and you will see what happens, doing the task prevents you from getting a severe punishment (relative time spent on the task), so it is high reward. People with ADHD tend to be late paying bills or doing taxes and struggle with filling in forms in general, ie they regularly fail to do simpl…

Me browsing HN instead of filling out an invoice so I can get paid so I can pay my tax bill before the end of tomorrow haha. Fiine, I'll get back to it after this comment.. > You’ll pay a late filing penalty of £100 if your tax return is up to 3 months late As ADHD taxes go this one's pretty chill. It's a decent chunk of change sure but compared to the rest of my finances (legacy pre-diagnosis debts I'm still grindin…

Got it done in time. Cheers for the motivation, HN! :)

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#192

Post by kreeben » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 7:44 PM UTC

saberience wrote: post #50

kreeben wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like AnotherGoodName's advise, a lot. But as you say, it will hit a nerve only with people who already have some confidence in their abilities so if they hit a wall, instead of giving up, they say to themselves that "oh, I guess I just need to learn even more things" and then do. A person with low confidence in their abilities will probably say "oh, I'm not smart enough". When it comes to this and most other trades…

Can you explain the reference to Gordon Ramsey? (and a link would be great if possible)

I thought he once said "anyone can become a chef" but after Googling I realize I might have a false memory. Was it another famous chef who said it? Sry.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#193

Post by toolz » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 7:46 PM UTC

Rewrap3643 wrote: post #172

toolz wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering there's no biological measurement being used to diagnose or correct ADHD, it's more of an "art" than a science. I presume you're looking for the safest drug that's also effective, because the safest would be not taking any drugs and optimizing for general health and lifestyle. I've heard of people achieving modest success with modafinil. Also with l-thyeanine/caffeine combos. Both of which have very well…

Psychs won't prescribe it because it's a wakefulness promoting agent, not a typical stimulant. There's insufficient evidence to prescribe it as a first-line treatment for ADHD. Insurance companies are also unlikely to pay for it in absence of a diagnosed sleep disorder. Methylphenidate is the clinically correct alternative to amphetamines.

So we should first-line treat people with addictive, known long-term harmful medicines rather than try things that have a known long-term safe profile simply because it's understood to be less likely to work?

That's just bonkers to me. I'll try every single safe potential treatment before resorting to higher evidenced unsafe treatment.

Also this "wakefulness" doesn't mean much. It's much like ADHD doesn't mean much - we're just describing symptoms. If we decided to describe the symptoms of taking modafinil as increasing concentration (which being more awake does) then it would be just as accurate.

There is no chemical being measured when we diagnose these medications and there is no chemical being measured when we clinically determine a successful treatment. It's all symptoms and entirely subjective. Which is exactly why we should tell people safe things work and allow the science of suggestion alongside medicine help treat people more safely.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#194

Post by hirvi74 » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 7:50 PM UTC

sph wrote: post #83

paxys wrote: post #14

From my experience in the tech industry I can say with utmost confidence that "not smart"/"talentless" people who are determined and hard-working lead to significantly better real world results than geniuses who are lazy, unmotivated or overall not action oriented. The vast majority of problems at any company are easy and don't need any big technological breakthroughs to solve. They are instead held back by (1) lack…

PSA for people that believe they are somewhat smart, have cool ideas yet seemingly no power whatsoever to actually work on them. If you believe you are chronically lazy and feel it is causing issues in your life. If you feel you are living at 10% your true potential: Get tested for ADHD. If that is your problem, know that the chemical fix for it is extremely effective. It's taken me 30+ years of self-hate, a suggesti…

> know that the chemical fix for it is extremely effective.

Only for a short time in my experience. Eventually, ADHD always wins in the end.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#195

Post by hirvi74 » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 8:04 PM UTC

corobo wrote: post #125

GeoAtreides wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PSA: take a look at CDC's symptoms for ADHD: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html No motivation to start cool new projects is not among them... Actually, reading all those symptoms really puts into the light the 'disorder' part in the ADHD. And here's a philosophical question to ponder: should we change[1] to fit society's expectations or should society adjust itself to our needs? Should we take drugs so th…

> No motivation to start cool new projects is not among them... Starting projects isn't the issue (personal experience w/ ADHD) - following through and finishing them is, which is listed in various ways under the inattentive section I've got plenty of new project folders, draft blog posts, plans written down, database schemas, etc - but no shipped results. This is the main issue for me. Starting a project is easy, wo…

The longer I think about it, the more it bothers me.

I once had a psych explain to me that the main reason many people treat ADHD, is not for themselves, but because of how others treat them.

No where I go there I am, and I will always piss people off.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#196

Post by hirvi74 » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 8:06 PM UTC

sph wrote: post #111

Jensson wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that those pills fixes focus, not motivation. Even with pills you will fail if your motivation falters, just like regular people. I think the main tell of ADHD is if you feel you lack motivation to complete simple but tedious tasks that has high rewards that you really care about. In that case you don't lack motivation, you really care about the reward, you don't lack confidence since the task is simple, you jus…

> Note that those pills fixes focus, not motivation. Very true, but focus is crucial. If you have focus, motivation is "just" about learning good habits. If you have focus, the Pomodoro technique works. If you have focus, the common advice to "just do 5 minutes" actually works. Without focus any form of habit is impossible. I feel people believe stimulants are only useful to get through the boring tasks. The issue wi…

> The issue with ADHD is that you cannot muster the strength to do the meaningful stuff you want to do.

Even medication doesn't help with this for me. I am basically nonfunctional without external motivation and/or fear of consequences.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#197

Post by hirvi74 » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 8:40 PM UTC

hasbot wrote: post #145

Jensson wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doing taxes and bills are not what I consider high reward more like moderate penalty Try not paying bills or filing your taxes and you will see what happens, doing the task prevents you from getting a severe punishment (relative time spent on the task), so it is high reward. People with ADHD tend to be late paying bills or doing taxes and struggle with filling in forms in general, ie they regularly fail to do simpl…

How sad would it be if most or all of my "high reward" tasks are anti-"severe punishment?"

Are you implying that there is some other way to live? Because if so, then please help me find it lol.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#198

Post by hirvi74 » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 8:44 PM UTC

thebiss wrote: post #184

sph wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PSA for people that believe they are somewhat smart, have cool ideas yet seemingly no power whatsoever to actually work on them. If you believe you are chronically lazy and feel it is causing issues in your life. If you feel you are living at 10% your true potential: Get tested for ADHD. If that is your problem, know that the chemical fix for it is extremely effective. It's taken me 30+ years of self-hate, a suggesti…

I have a hard time with this advice. Is it for teens? My daughter has severe ADHD and is a disaster without medication. One of her current doctors asked which parent has similar traits, and my wife says it is me. My daughter's academic and behavioral track record is shamefully like mine. So I've been to two psychologists and my GP, and all three say that ADHD doesn't exist in adults, it's something kids grow out of.

> So I've been to two psychologists and my GP, and all three say that ADHD doesn't exist in adults, it's something kids grow out of.

I recommend you go see someone who has at least read research from their field in the last 20 years.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#199

Post by hirvi74 » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 8:53 PM UTC

toolz wrote: post #193

Rewrap3643 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychs won't prescribe it because it's a wakefulness promoting agent, not a typical stimulant. There's insufficient evidence to prescribe it as a first-line treatment for ADHD. Insurance companies are also unlikely to pay for it in absence of a diagnosed sleep disorder. Methylphenidate is the clinically correct alternative to amphetamines.

So we should first-line treat people with addictive, known long-term harmful medicines rather than try things that have a known long-term safe profile simply because it's understood to be less likely to work? That's just bonkers to me. I'll try every single safe potential treatment before resorting to higher evidenced unsafe treatment. Also this "wakefulness" doesn't mean much. It's much like ADHD doesn't mean much -…

If Modafinil is truly effective, then why is it not commonly used?

The fact that is less commonly used seems to point two potential reasons:

1. It's safety profile is actually not that much better the what is commonly used for ADHD.

2. Its efficacy is significantly worse than what is commonly used, and thus, there is no point in using it.

> There is no chemical being measured when we diagnose these medications and there is no chemical being measured when we clinically determine a successful treatment.

I'll give you that one. I have personally always been bothered by this too. I just cannot understand why so many psychs have to go through a rigorous and scientifically based education program only to discount much of it in practice.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#200

Post by hirvi74 » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 8:56 PM UTC

sph wrote: post #108

BOOSTERHIDROGEN wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the safest drugs to consume ?

Safety is a spectrum. I take dexamfetamine, which is the most researched and effective (if you can tolerate it). It has addictive potential, but in my experience, treating it with the respect it deserved, I would say it's nothing compared to caffeine. I can easily skip meds from an entire week (which I will spend scrolling HN), yet every single day there is a voice in the back of my head telling me that a cup of coff…

I'm on the same medicine, but coffee is significantly easier to quit for me. If I take a single day off meds, then I feel it, and that feeling compounds for about a week. The withdrawals, in my opinion, while not particularly painful in a physical sense, and still fucking brutal.

I'm on a child's dosage too, which is crazy. Yeah yeah, I know everyone is different and all that, but I can see why this drug is a Schedule II Controlled Substance in the US. I am not sure how addicting it is from a psychological point of view at therapeutic dosages, but it's damn easy to build a dependence in my experience.