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Safetyism killed playtime

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Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#71

Post by acdha »

jahewson wrote: post #38
ethanbond wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO traffic violations should be punished way, way, way more severely than they are. In the US, licenses do need to be easy to get otherwise you lock people out of society (unfortunately), but they don't need to be easy to keep and you should drive with constant awareness that you will be taken to the cleaners for mishaps. Automated enforcement tech should be widespread and incur license revocations and salary/wealth…

License revocations are only effective for people who respect rules.

Or who fear consequences. That means enforcement has to be effective enough that people know there’s a high risk of consequences - for example, if driving on a suspended license means your car is sold at auction, people will care a lot more about following safety rules.

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#72

Post by soco »

mrtksn wrote: post #53
acuozzo wrote: post #22

I know the article focuses on the UK and what I'm about to state has little to do with the UK, but as a suburban US dad with three children I feel compelled to share that drivers are what keep me from feeling comfortable letting my seven and four year old play outside unsupervised. I've seen so many incidents of (young?) drivers tearing through sleepy suburban streets at highway speeds here in Maryland that I specifi…

The mayor of a municipality in Istanbul proudly announced that they built walls around a small city park to keep kids safe. And I was the only weirdo who asked why they didn’t put measures in place against speeding drivers instead. People see completely normal to take their kids to this walled garden that looks like a prison yard with a few trees and a playground. This hysteria of every stranger must be a criminal an…

Also Eastern Europe has by far the highest road crash fatalities - according to Eurostat[1] Romania tops it. So some worry might be earned... even when other people are less stressed about dying in a car crash.

https://actmedia.eu/daily/eurostat-romania-the-highest-rate-...

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#73

Post by Zobat »

Have to recommend the book "50 Dangerous Things (You Should Let Your Children Do)" by Gever Tulley. I think he still runs a camp where they promise the kids will come home with band aids.

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#74

Post by giantg2 »

cooper_ganglia wrote: post #68
giantg2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"licenses do need to be easy to get" This is what allows the situation we have. People either don't get caught, or only get caught after injury has occurred. "traffic violations should be punished way, way, way more severely than they are." It depends on the infection. Many are already severe, such as being arrested for racing, going 25+ over the limit, DUI, etc. DUI is a factor in about a 3rd of fatalities and is al…

DUIs are not punished nearly severely enough. I used to work with an alcoholic who had been arrested multiple times, for all sorts of things: Fighting, property damage, indecent exposure, racing, going +100 MPH on a suspended license, etc. He was arrested for his 4th DUI and was upset because, according to him, he "got the book thrown at him". His sentence? 6 months in county jail, with 5 days per week of work leave.…

Some states are more strict than other. That seems extremely lenient. They are generally misdemeanors or felonies that would cause many people to lose their jobs. Your part about faking work release is really a separate issue - did you report them?

Most states will not issue you a license if you have multiple DUIs. So he should have been on a suspended license, which should have drastically increased the penalty in most states. It seems the judge may have been ignoring sentencing guidelines if it was so lenient.

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#75

Post by acdha »

freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #37
acuozzo wrote: post #22

I know the article focuses on the UK and what I'm about to state has little to do with the UK, but as a suburban US dad with three children I feel compelled to share that drivers are what keep me from feeling comfortable letting my seven and four year old play outside unsupervised. I've seen so many incidents of (young?) drivers tearing through sleepy suburban streets at highway speeds here in Maryland that I specifi…

Your memory must be bad because I remember cars driving down my suburban street at highway speeds in the mid 90s. The lesson imparted as a kid was to always look both ways, assume no one sees you, and get in and out quickly. If you haven’t taught your kids to not impulsively run after balls into streets, that’s on you. Even my 3 year old knows better than to walk into a street after a ball. I literally watched him st…

It’s not just bad memory: in the 90s, cars were considerably smaller and less powerful – yes, people had 70s barges but those had much lower acceleration than an SUV and the driver was less insulated from the road and had better visibility. The other big change is Google Maps/Waze/etc. — most people did not know every possible side street and tended to stay on major roads more.

To your other point, yes, people need to teach children to fear cars but that also means grownups should be thinking about how much public space we’ve taken away from everyone to remove responsibility from drivers. It’s not unreasonable to think that balance is unhealthy, just as most of us have decided that we shouldn’t have factories in neighborhoods any more.

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#76

Post by giantg2 »

acdha wrote: post #67
giantg2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"licenses do need to be easy to get" This is what allows the situation we have. People either don't get caught, or only get caught after injury has occurred. "traffic violations should be punished way, way, way more severely than they are." It depends on the infection. Many are already severe, such as being arrested for racing, going 25+ over the limit, DUI, etc. DUI is a factor in about a 3rd of fatalities and is al…

If education worked, we wouldn’t see stats going up contrary to the rest of the world. The problem is that enforcement has declined radically and drivers have learned that there will be basically no consequences for anything short of a fatality and often even then it’ll be minimal. One of the big problems is that the early signals are ignored: the guy saying the dead pedestrian “jumped in front” of his truck now almo…

"If education worked, we wouldn’t see stats going up contrary to the rest of the world."

This isn't really true. Most other developed nations have much stricter licensing with much lower fatality rates.

Yes, enforcement is definitely an issue too. Progress penalties and fines tied to income levels (or vehicle values) would be a good start.

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#77

Post by rconti »

acuozzo wrote: post #22

I know the article focuses on the UK and what I'm about to state has little to do with the UK, but as a suburban US dad with three children I feel compelled to share that drivers are what keep me from feeling comfortable letting my seven and four year old play outside unsupervised. I've seen so many incidents of (young?) drivers tearing through sleepy suburban streets at highway speeds here in Maryland that I specifi…

So you chose a house on a dead-end street but also are still afraid to let your children play outside?

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#78

Post by [deleted] »

soco wrote: post #72
mrtksn wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mayor of a municipality in Istanbul proudly announced that they built walls around a small city park to keep kids safe. And I was the only weirdo who asked why they didn’t put measures in place against speeding drivers instead. People see completely normal to take their kids to this walled garden that looks like a prison yard with a few trees and a playground. This hysteria of every stranger must be a criminal an…

Also Eastern Europe has by far the highest road crash fatalities - according to Eurostat[1] Romania tops it. So some worry might be earned... even when other people are less stressed about dying in a car crash. https://actmedia.eu/daily/eurostat-romania-the-highest-rate-...

[deleted]

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#79

Post by black6 »

freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #37
acuozzo wrote: post #22

I know the article focuses on the UK and what I'm about to state has little to do with the UK, but as a suburban US dad with three children I feel compelled to share that drivers are what keep me from feeling comfortable letting my seven and four year old play outside unsupervised. I've seen so many incidents of (young?) drivers tearing through sleepy suburban streets at highway speeds here in Maryland that I specifi…

Your memory must be bad because I remember cars driving down my suburban street at highway speeds in the mid 90s. The lesson imparted as a kid was to always look both ways, assume no one sees you, and get in and out quickly. If you haven’t taught your kids to not impulsively run after balls into streets, that’s on you. Even my 3 year old knows better than to walk into a street after a ball. I literally watched him st…

Distraction plays a huge part these days. When I was growing up in the 80's and 90's, drivers drove. Now they're watching TikInstaXFaceTube and relying on lane departure warnings and brake assist to do the driving for them.

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#80

Post by mrtksn »

soco wrote: post #72
mrtksn wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mayor of a municipality in Istanbul proudly announced that they built walls around a small city park to keep kids safe. And I was the only weirdo who asked why they didn’t put measures in place against speeding drivers instead. People see completely normal to take their kids to this walled garden that looks like a prison yard with a few trees and a playground. This hysteria of every stranger must be a criminal an…

Also Eastern Europe has by far the highest road crash fatalities - according to Eurostat[1] Romania tops it. So some worry might be earned... even when other people are less stressed about dying in a car crash. https://actmedia.eu/daily/eurostat-romania-the-highest-rate-...

True. Also unhealthy diet, tobacco and alcohol abuse is problematic too in the self harm department.

However the solution shouldn’t be ban everything and regulate the environment up to babysitting levels.

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