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Safetyism killed playtime

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Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#61

Post by gosub100 »

freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #32

One of my favorite things about Texas is the fact that their playgrounds are actually dangerous with real risk. At one playground, there are these rings you crawl through to go from one part to another. The rings are attached by chains and the gaps between them are wide enough to slide through. I wish I had a picture these things were so awesome. There are other playgrounds with ropes and climbing walls with signific…

the boo boos are fine, but what about medical costs? Thats a component that I hear nobody talk about with safetyism. Can you imagine what a $15-20k bill for a broken arm (ambulance, ER, surgery, medication, follow-up visits) does to a middle or lower-class family? This a major factor to why people sue, because they can't afford these kinds of boo-boos.

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#62

Post by magicmicah85 »

My own personal experience. We made the mistake of buying a suburban town home next to a state highway with an HOA. At the time it seemed great but as our kids got older, they wanted to play outside. We’d get letters from the HOA about the kids playing in the street and how that wasn’t allowed cause of the bylaws. We ignored them and let them continue to do what they want. One time a board member tried yelling at the kids and my wife flipped out on her.

Now one of my boys wants to walk outside of the neighborhood. He’s thirteen and at the age I was when I’d run around everywhere on my bike. We don’t have decent sidewalks here and traffic on the main road is 45MPh and they are legit assholes around here who don’t pay attention and are always on their phone while driving. My wife doesn’t want to let him walk to friends and I understand why. Our environments are built for cars, not for people, to travel. Too many stories of Bobby or Suzie getting hit by cars. I’m working to petition the three townships that manage our town to invest in sidewalks cause I’d love for him to be able to run around but at least with that buffer.

So, I get safetyism. I don’t want to lose my children. I also don’t want them to experience life through an ipad so anything they want to do, we’ll go do it. We actually did do a walk down the road a few weeks back, trying to show them how to hug the road or go into the grass to stay away from cars. Once they’re in town, the sidewalks are nice but being right on the edge, we get left out.

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#63

Post by giantg2 »

ip26 wrote: post #47
acuozzo wrote: post #22

I know the article focuses on the UK and what I'm about to state has little to do with the UK, but as a suburban US dad with three children I feel compelled to share that drivers are what keep me from feeling comfortable letting my seven and four year old play outside unsupervised. I've seen so many incidents of (young?) drivers tearing through sleepy suburban streets at highway speeds here in Maryland that I specifi…

It doesn't even take terrifying drivers; really, it's all cars. It wasn't until I got to know some four year olds that I realized how little regard they have for cars. Squirrels have more respect for the hazard of moving automobiles.

Well yeah, they're 4 years old. They need some level of supervision if they have little survival skills or common sense. There has to be some level of supervision until a minimal level of survival is possible (assuming we want near zero losses).

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#64

Post by ultrarunner »

ethanbond wrote: post #34
acuozzo wrote: post #22

I know the article focuses on the UK and what I'm about to state has little to do with the UK, but as a suburban US dad with three children I feel compelled to share that drivers are what keep me from feeling comfortable letting my seven and four year old play outside unsupervised. I've seen so many incidents of (young?) drivers tearing through sleepy suburban streets at highway speeds here in Maryland that I specifi…

IMO traffic violations should be punished way, way, way more severely than they are. In the US, licenses do need to be easy to get otherwise you lock people out of society (unfortunately), but they don't need to be easy to keep and you should drive with constant awareness that you will be taken to the cleaners for mishaps. Automated enforcement tech should be widespread and incur license revocations and salary/wealth…

> licenses do need to be easy to get

Only if society continues to be centered around cars.

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#65

Post by jahewson »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #16

I don't think I get the point. Creative, unstructured play and safety aren't mutually exclusive. A kid doesn't need to get a third degree burn or break an arm to "play better", and those are mostly avoidable risks. The article also missed on developing this piece of information: > In urbanised environments, where land is at an all-time premium, finding a place to run around can be a challenge. One in eight children d…

Agree the article does not make a clear point. I think it conflates several issues. However, risk is now recognised as a necessary component of play:

https://theeducationhub.org.nz/promoting-childrens-risky-pla...

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#66

Post by ethanbond »

ultrarunner wrote: post #64
ethanbond wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO traffic violations should be punished way, way, way more severely than they are. In the US, licenses do need to be easy to get otherwise you lock people out of society (unfortunately), but they don't need to be easy to keep and you should drive with constant awareness that you will be taken to the cleaners for mishaps. Automated enforcement tech should be widespread and incur license revocations and salary/wealth…

> licenses do need to be easy to get Only if society continues to be centered around cars.

Yep, but if we can change that then the problem as a whole gets mitigated quite a lot.

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#67

Post by acdha »

giantg2 wrote: post #42
ethanbond wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO traffic violations should be punished way, way, way more severely than they are. In the US, licenses do need to be easy to get otherwise you lock people out of society (unfortunately), but they don't need to be easy to keep and you should drive with constant awareness that you will be taken to the cleaners for mishaps. Automated enforcement tech should be widespread and incur license revocations and salary/wealth…

"licenses do need to be easy to get" This is what allows the situation we have. People either don't get caught, or only get caught after injury has occurred. "traffic violations should be punished way, way, way more severely than they are." It depends on the infection. Many are already severe, such as being arrested for racing, going 25+ over the limit, DUI, etc. DUI is a factor in about a 3rd of fatalities and is al…

If education worked, we wouldn’t see stats going up contrary to the rest of the world. The problem is that enforcement has declined radically and drivers have learned that there will be basically no consequences for anything short of a fatality and often even then it’ll be minimal.

One of the big problems is that the early signals are ignored: the guy saying the dead pedestrian “jumped in front” of his truck now almost always has a history of things like speeding and signal tickets, parking violations, etc. but as long as that doesn’t interfere with their ability to drive, they’re just being trained not to treat it seriously.

What I’d like to see is a progressive escalation of natural consequences: more than one speeding or light ticket in a year and you can’t keep your license without showing that your car has a speed/acceleration governor installed, more than a few in a year and your license is suspended for a month, etc. The focus should not be on money but reinforcing the idea that driving is dangerous and if you refuse to be safe you will lose that privilege.

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#68

Post by cooper_ganglia »

giantg2 wrote: post #42
ethanbond wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO traffic violations should be punished way, way, way more severely than they are. In the US, licenses do need to be easy to get otherwise you lock people out of society (unfortunately), but they don't need to be easy to keep and you should drive with constant awareness that you will be taken to the cleaners for mishaps. Automated enforcement tech should be widespread and incur license revocations and salary/wealth…

"licenses do need to be easy to get" This is what allows the situation we have. People either don't get caught, or only get caught after injury has occurred. "traffic violations should be punished way, way, way more severely than they are." It depends on the infection. Many are already severe, such as being arrested for racing, going 25+ over the limit, DUI, etc. DUI is a factor in about a 3rd of fatalities and is al…

DUIs are not punished nearly severely enough. I used to work with an alcoholic who had been arrested multiple times, for all sorts of things: Fighting, property damage, indecent exposure, racing, going +100 MPH on a suspended license, etc.

He was arrested for his 4th DUI and was upset because, according to him, he "got the book thrown at him". His sentence? 6 months in county jail, with 5 days per week of work leave. He only spent evenings and weekends at the jail. A few months in, he faked some letterhead for a landscaping company and sent a letter to the judge, claiming to be the company, saying they just hired him and they were requesting a 6th day of work leave. The judge allowed it, so now this guy would just leave jail on Saturday morning and hang out with his elderly parents all day.

He saved money while in jail because he would work all week and then sleep at the jail, so he had no rent to pay. He was arrested for his FOURTH DUI, and came out financially better than when he went in. He was practically rewarded for it.

In my opinion, a DUI should mean 5 years in prison with no possibility for a shortened sentence, your second DUI gets you 10 years, and your third is an instant life-sentence. I've had too many people in my life killed or paralyzed by inebriated drivers. I have literally not one single drop of empathy for anyone who drinks and then gets behind the wheel. In the case of an accident, I think it's actually immoral that they are provided any level of medical care at all. If they caused the injury or death of someone else on the road, leave them in the ditch to crawl out themselves. Let them take accountability for their actions, because obviously 6-months in county jail isn't fixing the problem.

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#69

Post by ethanbond »

jahewson wrote: post #38
ethanbond wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO traffic violations should be punished way, way, way more severely than they are. In the US, licenses do need to be easy to get otherwise you lock people out of society (unfortunately), but they don't need to be easy to keep and you should drive with constant awareness that you will be taken to the cleaners for mishaps. Automated enforcement tech should be widespread and incur license revocations and salary/wealth…

License revocations are only effective for people who respect rules.

There are tons of "minor" infractions committed by people who see themselves as perfectly responsible and law-abiding. And they are to the degree that they wouldn't drive without a license and would be legitimately deterred by that threat, but they just view various infractions as a normal part of driving (because they are, as our enforcement schemes make clear!)

Re: Safetyism killed playtime

#70

Post by giantg2 »

magicmicah85 wrote: post #62

My own personal experience. We made the mistake of buying a suburban town home next to a state highway with an HOA. At the time it seemed great but as our kids got older, they wanted to play outside. We’d get letters from the HOA about the kids playing in the street and how that wasn’t allowed cause of the bylaws. We ignored them and let them continue to do what they want. One time a board member tried yelling at the…

Just an FYI, but most municipalities have "sidewalks" legally defined as right of ways. They are available to use even if they are unimproved (grass). So that could be something to look into. Most of my childhood was in areas without paved sidewalks.

The grosser part is that you live in an HOA that can make (and enforce) those sorts of rules.

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