Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm 30 and literally none of my friends that age have kids.
Where do you live?
Poland.
Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated
301–310 of 364 posts
Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is always crazy to me the ratio of damage done to benefit received by people committing crime and fraud. I don't know how much one could possibly pocket using such scheme, but I'm certain that compared to the destruction of the entire project it is not that high of a percent.
They've already made their money and moved on to the next scam. Those living in the building are the ones who pay the ultimate price.
Clearly, I'm just astounded by the magnitude of destruction people are willing to commit. It's like stealing a loaf of bread from your neighbor and then burning down his house to cover up the crime.
Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
They've already made their money and moved on to the next scam. Those living in the building are the ones who pay the ultimate price.
Clearly, I'm just astounded by the magnitude of destruction people are willing to commit. It's like stealing a loaf of bread from your neighbor and then burning down his house to cover up the crime.
Not only well-meaning people suffer from near-sightedness. Conmen do, too.
While committing the act, they just think in the short term, and not about the absolute destruction of people's lives and property.
This nearsightedness complicate many problems further, and worsen them.
Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated
#304A couple of things to note: 1.) Why did it take Evergrande 3 years to liquidate? In western countries, liquidation happens in a few months. One should note that Evergrande did not get that big by itself; obviously it had the support of CCP elites to secure huge bank loans. Therefore, when it went bankrupt, the delay was to allow these elites to pull money/liquidable assets out of Evergrande. Thus after 3 years, Everg…
Do you have any education in finance, securities, law, economics, etc.? E.g. Your Edit stating that China banned short selling. They didn't ban short selling. They banned borrowing of shares that are "restricted" to short sell.
I'm quoting wikipedia here:
> There are a number of ways of achieving a short position. The most fundamental method is "physical" selling short or short-selling, which involves borrowing assets (often securities such as shares or bonds) and selling them. The investor will later purchase the same number of the same type of securities in order to return them to the lender. If the price has fallen in the meantime, the investor will have made a profit equal to the difference.
Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, it's gonna be very hard to get the genie to go back into the bottle, people won't forget that real estate is very powerful for financial speculation, and that even if the bubble bursts again and again you have plenty of years with amazing returns. At least the same hasn't happened with food and drinkable water yet.
The problem gets deeper: This may sound insane, but I would argue that the productivity is way too high. There is too much stuff, which is too cheap, which makes it too hard to make money by actually producing anything. This it turn splits the economy into two groups: One that doesn't have money, live scrapping the bottom, and typically in debt. The other that does have money, with no good opportunities to invest, wh…
The wrong kind of productivity is too high. Too much consumer crap, much of it disposable. Not enough no-compromise blue sky R&D and research into physics fundamentals.
Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated
#306This is a much more financially accurate article: https://www.ft.com/content/d7b61c43-be36-49da-894e-cac68fefb...
> While Evergrande is listed in Hong Kong, almost all of its assets and the vast majority of its more than $300bn in liabilities are in China.
> In theory, the ruling could pave the way for liquidators to attempt to seize control of some Evergrande assets in mainland China, since Hong Kong has a mutual recognition agreement on insolvency and restructuring that applies in some parts of China.
> However, it is not clear how far mainland courts will accept the Hong Kong winding-up order.
In short, this headline is wildly overstated. This is a minority jurisdiction that is overreaching. There is no way that Mainland Chinese courts will respect the decision. Frankly, I would say the same if a giant French property developer happened to be listed on the Amsterdam Stock Exchange. If a Dutch court ordered them to liquidate, I cannot believe the French gov't would allow it. (To be clear: I am not an EU hater here. Vice versa would also be true.)
My prediction: China with directly or indirectly nationalise Evergrande. Most bondholders (especially foreigners) will be wiped out. Most of the unfinished buildings will be completed in 2-5 years.
Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, it's gonna be very hard to get the genie to go back into the bottle, people won't forget that real estate is very powerful for financial speculation, and that even if the bubble bursts again and again you have plenty of years with amazing returns. At least the same hasn't happened with food and drinkable water yet.
The problem gets deeper: This may sound insane, but I would argue that the productivity is way too high. There is too much stuff, which is too cheap, which makes it too hard to make money by actually producing anything. This it turn splits the economy into two groups: One that doesn't have money, live scrapping the bottom, and typically in debt. The other that does have money, with no good opportunities to invest, wh…
Don't worry, the unfortunate side of the "split" could just start a side-hustle! Maybe another podcast, or OnlyFans account. Everyone has a story to sell, and if not, just make it up! "Content creation" to create need for a marketing-made spontaneously mass-produced something, anything, as parasitic load on dopaminergic parasocial relationships. See? Growth finds a way! Super healthy, totally not an indicator of things getting catastrophically unbalanced.
Already, at capacity attention, over capacity exploitation. Infrastructure debts, planetary debts #YOLO
I wonder, when we're finally getting AI enhanced productivity end to end, will we realize how deep we dug ourselves in?
Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
> affordable housing is in the interest of everybody except property developers. it is, but it's also complicated as the problems are quite a bit different in China then in the US the reason there was a bubble in China was because they sold (barely) affordable (apartment owned, not rented) housing to a huge amount of people while not producing it. Like they financed it similar to a snowball system. Group B buys housi…
Very curious how these opportunities for housing were marketed to the masses? These ghost cities you describe, I can see how the new housing can be presented as a life-changing opportunity, with nice images/videos but the reality is...a ghost town, facade of a city.
They are marketed as investments, not housing. The majority of people buying these "Homes" never intended for themselves or anyone else for that matter, to live in them in the first place.
Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe I missed something as a European who doesn't always see what's happening over the great pond, but the sentence "hey we just copied Canada why are you complaining" confuses me. Did I miss Canada embarking on a policy of euthanasia? I know that the treatment of native people had quite a few scandals in recent decades, did you want to allude to that? Without wanting to make light of that situation, I think it is r…
Canada allows medically assisted suicide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada
Thank you. I have responded to you, since you were one minute earlier. I won't repeat the whole comment that I had written and lost due to my phone running out of battery, but still wanted to at least add part of it with thanks for the information.
This kind of euthanasia (voluntary, with a review board, like in Switzerland) is something I feel should be a human right, though I'm not sure about the intricacies of the Canadian system.
I think one should be very much aware of the extreme chasm between this and the kind of euthanasia committed in the early half of the last century in the third Reich, and not confuse them because of the common name. From the grandparent comment, I had assumed they meant to imply that Canada had implemented something closer to the latter.
Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
> affordable housing is in the interest of everybody except property developers. it is, but it's also complicated as the problems are quite a bit different in China then in the US the reason there was a bubble in China was because they sold (barely) affordable (apartment owned, not rented) housing to a huge amount of people while not producing it. Like they financed it similar to a snowball system. Group B buys housi…
Very curious how these opportunities for housing were marketed to the masses? These ghost cities you describe, I can see how the new housing can be presented as a life-changing opportunity, with nice images/videos but the reality is...a ghost town, facade of a city.
China is still urbanizing rapidly. Just like GP said, it won't be a ghost city for long. It depends though on how long the investor can hold out, and whether or not the new city is doomed from the start.
CCP planning is just different. TBD if it's doomed to fail like the Soviet Union, or if it will make it through a crisis like this. It's also hard to tell what will ultimately call a crisis; just thinking back to 2008, a lot of the story is only figured out in retrospect (eg how critical Bear Stearns was).