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Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

nytimes.com

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Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#181

Post by downvotetruth »

aspenmayer wrote: post #145
lowbloodsugar wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since we're at "quoting wikipedia" levels of pedantry, may I point out that your article calls this a "Compound" not a "Compound word". And the statement "group of words that is not a compound is a phrase" requires that there exists a "group of words that is a compound". "If they are joined with a space (e.g. school bus, high school, lowest common denominator), then the result – at least in English[1] – may be an ope…

It’s an open compound word composed of individual words that aren’t used singularly, in that the meaning is changed if they are interpreted individually or singly. This isn’t an adjective phrase in this case. I don’t know who you’re trying to convince but the person I responded to is simply mistaken or ignorant of compound words and how they are used, interpreted, or referred to. The fact that open compound words are…

The use of ad hominen discredits claims and turns off readers. Nominative determinism is not a compound word as compounds are formed by combining free morphemes and the suffix -ive is bound.

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#182

Post by cdf »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #6

I cant help but recall a 2015 Peter Theil interview with Tyler Cowen [1] where he talked about the black magic predictive power of company names. Hard to unsee a company called "ever bigger" getting overextended. https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/peter-thiel/

"This agglomeration which was called and which still calls itself the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire." ― Voltaire

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#185

Post by mensetmanusman »

gruez wrote: post #23
greenhexagon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is much about China that I don't understand, but I'm curious about the ownership in the "ghost cities". Given the ability of the CCP to significantly control major industries and movement of people, is it not possible that someone might buy an apartment in a "ghost city" while living in a rural area or renting in another city, expecting that people and jobs would flow to the city once it was completed? Basicall…

>Given the ability of the CCP to significantly control major industries and movement of people, is it not possible that someone might buy an apartment in a "ghost city" while living in a rural area or renting in another city, expecting that people and jobs would flow to the city once it was completed? Seems like it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under-occupied_developments_in... >Many developments initially criticize…

They will be ghost cities in 2100.

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#186

Post by nradov »

loeg wrote: post #139
miohtama wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also means that foreign direct investments to China will dry up. However they’d likely dry up any case due to US vs. China trade war.

A little bit, maybe, but probably not entirely. The joke is that debt investors have no memory. For example, Argentina has defaulted many times in recent memory but was still able to market a 100-year bond in 2017 (which it has already defaulted on).

This is more a sign that the bond rating process remains broken despite some superficial reforms after the 2008 financial crisis. The major rating agencies gave that Argentine bond a B rating which allows many institutional investors to buy, despite the reality that it's obviously garbage. Then when the next default hits the fund managers can blame their losses on the rating agencies. Nothing changes.

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#187

Post by aspenmayer »

downvotetruth wrote: post #181
aspenmayer wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an open compound word composed of individual words that aren’t used singularly, in that the meaning is changed if they are interpreted individually or singly. This isn’t an adjective phrase in this case. I don’t know who you’re trying to convince but the person I responded to is simply mistaken or ignorant of compound words and how they are used, interpreted, or referred to. The fact that open compound words are…

The use of ad hominen discredits claims and turns off readers. Nominative determinism is not a compound word as compounds are formed by combining free morphemes and the suffix -ive is bound.

It’s not an ad hominem to suggest that someone is wrong or mistaken about a point of fact when that’s the context of the discussion.

Determinism is a distinct concept, and while related to nominative determinism, in the sentence I used, I don’t think it’s accurate to say that the word nominative is an adjective modifying determinism because nominative determinism is itself a distinct concept that functions singly as an appositive after an independent clause and a colon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apposition

I’ll admit that you are free to disagree on this point or any other I have made, and I wouldn’t consider you wrong to do so. My remarks regarding what you posted in response another person in the thread were meant to contrast our views on this matter. Clearly, it’s implied that these are my views, and it’s okay to be wrong, and I’ll admit that I may be considered wrong myself by you, but to say so isn’t an ad hominem because we were both making truth claims with the unstated assumption that we each believe ourselves to be right. It’s not an insult or claim for/against you personally or regarding your character. It’s just how I view your claims on this topic as evidenced by your comments.

It just seems needlessly pedantic to derail an entire thread to call someone out for supposedly miscounting words when it’s literally beside the point I was making, but I respect your difference of opinion.

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#188

Post by deadfoxygrandpa »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #64
berserk1010 wrote: post #49

A couple of things to note: 1.) Why did it take Evergrande 3 years to liquidate? In western countries, liquidation happens in a few months. One should note that Evergrande did not get that big by itself; obviously it had the support of CCP elites to secure huge bank loans. Therefore, when it went bankrupt, the delay was to allow these elites to pull money/liquidable assets out of Evergrande. Thus after 3 years, Everg…

> This bodes very ill for creditors. Foreign creditors account only for $25B of the $300B liabilities for Evergrande. I'm sorry - but any foreigner who lent Evergrande money thinking this wasn't a huge risk is a moron. > This will accelerate the real estate price decline in all parts of China, on top of the 30-40% drop we're seeing in Tier 1 cities, on top of the 50-60% drop we're seeing in non-Tier 1 cities. Accordi…

i live in shenzhen and i would love it if prices dropped 30-40%. i'd buy an apartment immediately lol. i've been checking real estate prices every once and a while for about 5 years now ready to buy if something shows up at a good price in an area i want to live in

the reality so far is that prices have pretty much stayed flat for the past 4-5 years. there hasnt been any significant fall anywhere within like 1 hour of me in shenzhen

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#189

Post by asah »

gottorf wrote: post #179
loeg wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A little bit, maybe, but probably not entirely. The joke is that debt investors have no memory. For example, Argentina has defaulted many times in recent memory but was still able to market a 100-year bond in 2017 (which it has already defaulted on).

Wow, I had no idea. There are very few entities in the world whose 100-year bonds I would entertain (maybe Switzerland?), and Argentina would certainly be near the bottom. I can't believe they sold two and three-quarter billion dollars'[0] worth! [0]: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/20/argentina-sees-strong-demand...

The sell size has all sorts of tricks, including bundling these bonds with better looking ones.

2.75B is 0.002% of the $133T worldwide bond market.

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#190

Post by berserk1010 »

deadfoxygrandpa wrote: post #188
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This bodes very ill for creditors. Foreign creditors account only for $25B of the $300B liabilities for Evergrande. I'm sorry - but any foreigner who lent Evergrande money thinking this wasn't a huge risk is a moron. > This will accelerate the real estate price decline in all parts of China, on top of the 30-40% drop we're seeing in Tier 1 cities, on top of the 50-60% drop we're seeing in non-Tier 1 cities. Accordi…

i live in shenzhen and i would love it if prices dropped 30-40%. i'd buy an apartment immediately lol. i've been checking real estate prices every once and a while for about 5 years now ready to buy if something shows up at a good price in an area i want to live in the reality so far is that prices have pretty much stayed flat for the past 4-5 years. there hasnt been any significant fall anywhere within like 1 hour o…

I guess you weren't looking hard enough.

Pre-owned housing prices in Shenzhen fell by nearly half from their peak in 2020 after holding up over the past two years of plunging new-home values amid slumping demand and a liquidity crunch for developers.

https://www.caixinglobal.com/2023-08-25/shenzhen-existing-ho...

Meanwhile, according to Leyoujia store transaction data, second-hand housing prices in Shenzhen in the fourth quarter of 2023 were around 65,000 yuan per square meter, down 12% from 2022, and 22% lower than the all-time high in the first quarter of 2021. The transaction prices in some areas and real estate have already returned to 2018, and the drop compared to the highest point was as high as 30% to 40%.

https://news.futunn.com/en/post/36099590?level=1&data_ticket...

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