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Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

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Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#451

Post by thomastjeffery »

emporas wrote: post #347
jlokier wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the only way to do this is to require ID checks, effectively regulating and destroying the anonymous nature of the internet That seems intuitive, but it's not actually true. I suggest looking up zero-knowledge proofs. Using modern cryptography, it is easy to send a machine-generated proof to your social media provider that your government-provided ID says your age is ≥ 16, without revealing anything else about…

Definitely, we can use a government issued id, or we can create our own. Social graphs i call em. Zero knowledge proofs have so many ground breaking applications. I have made a comment in the past, relevant to how could a social graph be build, without the need of any government [1]. We can create effectively one million new governments to compete with existing ones. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36421679

I've been thinking a lot lately about decentralized moderation.

All we need to do is replace the word "moderate" with "curate". Everything else is an attestation.

We don't really need a blockchain, either. Attestations can be asserted by a web of trust. Simply choose a curator (or collection of curators) to trust, and you're done.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#452

Post by Tadpole9181 »

soared wrote: post #392
solarpunk wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you've posted this in a few threads, but i dont think i understand what the scenario it is used in would be? every user of social media in florida now has to visit a third party (who?) that sets a cookie (private state token?) on their browser that verifies their age?

Correct - ISP requires you to visit Florida.gov (or realistically a company the government trusted to set up verification) to set your token if you’re an adult. Then each social media site checks whether a visitor is from Florida, and then if they have a valid token. If valid, load like normal. If not valid, don’t load the site.

And now the state of Florida has a receipt of every website you ever visit. That will surely never be an issue when the Governor's private law enforcement arm looks through it or the inevitable data leak happens.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#454

Post by Tadpole9181 »

safog wrote: post #109
goda90 wrote: post #9

I'm still on the fence about government doing a parent's job here, especially for kids under 13, but I can't stand that no one pushing these bills has come up with an actually reasonable age verification method.

We're barreling towards an internet that requires an id before you can use it. It's a bit upsetting but I don't harbor the early 2000s naiveté about the free internet where regulation doesn't exist, the data exchange happens over open formats and connecting people from across the world is viewed as an absolute positive. Govt meddling on social media platforms, the filter bubble, platforms locking data in, teenage dep…

> Govt meddling on social media platforms

And the government having unfettered knowledge of every site you visit - in particular the more salacious ones - is how we solve that? Surely that won't be used as a political cudgel to secure power at any point, nor will it ever be used to target specific demographics or accidentally get leaked.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#455

Post by amalcon »

foobarian wrote: post #287
giarc wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a parent? It's not as easy as saying "no social media" to your kids. In this day and age, it's basically equivalent to saying "you can't have friends". Online is where kids meet, hang out, converse etc. I'd LOVE to go back to the days before phones and social media, where kids played with neighbours and ride their bikes to their friends house, but that's slowly slipping away.

We try pretty hard to get our kids to play with their friends in person (we invite them or give rides to playdates) but what do they do when they meet up? Sit on the couch with their tablets and play virtually in Roblox :-)

When my friends would meet up in the 80's-90's, quite a bit of Nintendo happened. Is it really that different? The proportion of video games should eventually drop (not to zero), in favor of (if you're lucky) talking and whatever music bothers you the most.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#456

Post by adaptbrian »

Zak wrote: post #404
qwertox wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lately I'm repeatedly reminded of how in Ecuador citizens, when interviewed during a protest, see it as a normal thing to tell their name as well as their personal ID number into the camera when also speaking about their position in regards of the protest. They stand to what they are saying without hiding. Since about half a year I've noticed the German Twitter section getting sunk in hate posts, people disrespecting…

The algorithm powering the trending section, which rewards angry replies and accusatory quote-tweets is at least a good a candidate as a source of harm to political discourse than anonymity.

Take it a step forward, ban Engagement based algorithmic feeds. I've said this and I'll continue to say this type of behavioral science was designed at FB by a small group of people and needs to be outlawed. It never should have been allowed to take over the new age monetization economy. There's so much human potential with the internet and its absolutely trainwrecked atm b.c of Facebook.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#457

Post by Tadpole9181 »

soared wrote: post #281
goda90 wrote: post #9

I'm still on the fence about government doing a parent's job here, especially for kids under 13, but I can't stand that no one pushing these bills has come up with an actually reasonable age verification method.

https://developers.google.com/privacy-sandbox/protections/pr... Private State Tokens enable trust in a user's authenticity to be conveyed from one context to another, to help sites combat fraud and distinguish bots from real humans—without passive tracking. An issuer website can issue tokens to the web browser of a user who shows that they're trustworthy, for example through continued account usage, by completing a t…

This system clearly and trivially deanonymizes the internet. Even worse than a centralized system, it uses a simple "just trust me bro" mentality that issuers would never injure users for personal gain and would never keep logs or have data leaks, which would expose the Internet traffic of a real person.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#458

Post by bcrosby95 »

ribosometronome wrote: post #207
monkeynotes wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gambling is outright banned for a majority of regions in the US, not just kids. I don't think they are equally bad, just different bad. Gambling is addictive, and it destroys people. Social media is addictive and socially toxic, on the whole it erodes the very fabric of a society.

>Social media is addictive and socially toxic, on the whole it erodes the very fabric of a society. It's interesting how every generation seems to decry new forms of media as eroding the fabric of society. They said it about video games, television, music, movies, etc. I'm sure we're right this time, though.

Social media isn't new. It's over 20 years old by now. If you count things like forums you're looking at 30+ years old.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#459

Post by Tadpole9181 »

tnbp wrote: post #51
ip26 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Third party, perhaps. You sign up for service A. Service A queries service B, which knows who you are and provides a one-time ack of your age.

That sounds nightmarish. I don't want the verifier to know what porn sites I visit. Someone else proposed the following system to me: a third party authority issues a certificate which I can then use to prove I'm 18. The CA cannot see where I use the certificate, though.

Er... The CA needs to be used to verify the certificate by the third party, ergo it will know the websites.

It's virtually impossible to make a verification system that's anonymous. Somewhere the third party and authenticator will need to share a secret that you cannot touch.

Furthermore, you would need the government to agree to this system and mandate this system universally and pay for the authentication services to exist. That's not what Florida is doing.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#460

Post by jonathankoren »

TillE wrote: post #414
paulddraper wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. I am staunch believer in the moral and societal good of free speech. Anonymous speech is far more dubious. Like, protests seem valuable. Protests while wearing robes and masks however...

> Protests while wearing robes and masks however This is absolutely permitted in America. It is illegal in countries like Germany which have no strong free speech protections.

No. It is not "absolutely permitted in America".

They're Klan Acts, because a bunch of guys in masks and robes marching through is obviously a threat of violence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law

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