Is this all terribly unfair to the people that published their work assuming this couldn't happen? Yes. But the response needs to be "lets come up with and pass better law" and not "lets twist and contort the current law to be something it's not."
OpenAI: Copy, Steal, Paste
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Re: OpenAI: Copy, Steal, Paste
#22Their business to take other people's suffering, and use that to write stories to sell views (and newspapers).
An egregious example is Kim Phuc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Thi_Kim_Phuc
They featured a naked, burned girl on the front page of the New York Times to sell copies. I am not aware of any compensation the New York Times offered her. Her permission was never asked.
That picture has defined how the public has viewed her for the rest of her life.
They would argue that doing this is in furtherance of public goods such as people knowing what is going on and they could not realistically seek permission from every person much less compensate every person featured in a news photo or story.
I think that may be a valid argument. But doesn't AI also have the potential to benefit society. Isn't using news articles as input for AI making AI better and more useful to society. If the news can use people's images and suffering to benefit society (while making money), why can't their news stories be used to train AI to benefit even more people with knowledge?
Re: OpenAI: Copy, Steal, Paste
#23Can't agree more. These AI systems have been built on the back of free labor for decades. We will look back on this and wonder how we essentially subsidized these behemoth corporations, then allowed them to extract subscription fees back from the very people it took the labor from. Don't get me wrong, there are genuine innovations in AI and ML. But, on the same token, you can't have ChatGPT without content.
Do you repay publishers for information you’ve summarized or new insights you’ve gained after consuming their content? How is it different when AI does the same thing?
Re: OpenAI: Copy, Steal, Paste
#24Can't agree more. These AI systems have been built on the back of free labor for decades. We will look back on this and wonder how we essentially subsidized these behemoth corporations, then allowed them to extract subscription fees back from the very people it took the labor from. Don't get me wrong, there are genuine innovations in AI and ML. But, on the same token, you can't have ChatGPT without content.
>These AI systems have been built on the back of free labor for decades. In practical terms, is that different from Google becoming a trillion-dollar company from its search offering?
Yes, Google has captured massive value, but they've also generated massive amounts of value for companies (including startups!).
Can the same be said for OpenAI?
If they live up to their non-profit mission, I think it could.
But it's not clear that it will.
Re: OpenAI: Copy, Steal, Paste
#25Hard disagree. The whole concept of copyright is unnatural and technology evolution is showing its limits. In the same way a writer reads books and use that knowledge to create more, an ai model can do the same.
No, it can't. Literally.
The AI model doesn't decide which data goes into training it. People do. These people are doing something very, very bad.
Also, the AI model can't be held responsible for its actions. Again, people that create it and use it can be, however.
People on HN like to point out that an AI model is "just a tool", so work created with AI is still the work of the user.
It's only reasonable to point out that a tool is not the same thing as a writer. A tool lacks agency. Therefore, a tool isn't "learning" just like a writer.
A ZIP file isn't "learning" when it's created by transforming data into a binary file. Neither does a JPEG file.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. If the AI model is equivalent to a sentient human being in your eyes, it should have the same rights and responsibilities. As long as it's being used, the equivalence isn't there.
Re: OpenAI: Copy, Steal, Paste
#26Can't agree more. These AI systems have been built on the back of free labor for decades. We will look back on this and wonder how we essentially subsidized these behemoth corporations, then allowed them to extract subscription fees back from the very people it took the labor from. Don't get me wrong, there are genuine innovations in AI and ML. But, on the same token, you can't have ChatGPT without content.
In reality, the most we'll likely see is a few people who successfully sue for their small piece of the pie, while the big companies carry on like nothing happened - further accelerating the transfer of wealth right to the top.
Re: OpenAI: Copy, Steal, Paste
#27Some of the pushback is the desire to collect fees or social capital for works, which is understandable, but at the same time that inherently creates walled gardens of information and the ability to combine (synthesize), something which could be considered outdated compared to what these algorithms could offer.
One somewhat reasonable outcome could be that for profit offerings must develop ways to limit excerpts and acknowledge sources, the latter similarly to how Google search works. I think it would be a terrible outcome if knowledge and AI abilities were splintered off to different product groupings (eg NYT only available via Apple AI).
Re: OpenAI: Copy, Steal, Paste
#28Can't agree more. These AI systems have been built on the back of free labor for decades. We will look back on this and wonder how we essentially subsidized these behemoth corporations, then allowed them to extract subscription fees back from the very people it took the labor from. Don't get me wrong, there are genuine innovations in AI and ML. But, on the same token, you can't have ChatGPT without content.
> These AI systems have been built on the back of free labor for decades. Do you repay publishers for information you’ve summarized or new insights you’ve gained after consuming their content? How is it different when AI does the same thing?
Re: OpenAI: Copy, Steal, Paste
#29Re: OpenAI: Copy, Steal, Paste
#30Can't agree more. These AI systems have been built on the back of free labor for decades. We will look back on this and wonder how we essentially subsidized these behemoth corporations, then allowed them to extract subscription fees back from the very people it took the labor from. Don't get me wrong, there are genuine innovations in AI and ML. But, on the same token, you can't have ChatGPT without content.
> These AI systems have been built on the back of free labor for decades. Do you repay publishers for information you’ve summarized or new insights you’ve gained after consuming their content? How is it different when AI does the same thing?