What's an enforcement mechanism that works for this? My concern is that teenagers are going to learn yet another way to be dishonest.
Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16
351–360 of 720 posts
Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16
#352The tech industry needs an association similar to how doctors join the American Medical Association, where they can collectively agree on ethics and guidelines that must be followed. Any person in tech is behaving unethically if they assist in implementing software to restrict children in Florida from accessing information on the internet that their peers in other states can access. Florida shows little concern for the potential harm to children resulting from information restrictions. Kids in abusive environments greatly benefit from the social connections online communities provide, as well as the diverse information and perspectives from other people. Florida has created this bill as a means to censor content it deems immoral, whether it be abortion information for girls, understanding sexuality, the existence of trans kids, or any other topic arbitrarily designated as immoral by the ruling political party. It is disconcerting to target the rights of children, who have the lowest chance of having the resources needed to challenge something like this bill in court, which should happen under the first amendment.
Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16
#353Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gambling is outright banned for a majority of regions in the US, not just kids. I don't think they are equally bad, just different bad. Gambling is addictive, and it destroys people. Social media is addictive and socially toxic, on the whole it erodes the very fabric of a society.
>Social media is addictive and socially toxic, on the whole it erodes the very fabric of a society. It's interesting how every generation seems to decry new forms of media as eroding the fabric of society. They said it about video games, television, music, movies, etc. I'm sure we're right this time, though.
… we’ve been right. Television, music, video games, movies, etc., have decimated social capital and communication in the western world. It is not uncommon to “hang out” with people who are your “friends” without ever interacting with them in any meaningful way because everyone is focused on, e.g., a television. That’s assuming everyone isn’t too busy playing video games to leave their houses.
Whether you agree or not that they’re “eroding the very fabric of a society” (I would argue they are), it should be acknowledged that almost all the downsides predicted have come to pass, and life has gone on not because these things didn’t happen, but in spite of them having happened.
Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16
#354Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But the only way to do this is to require ID checks, effectively regulating and destroying the anonymous nature of the internet That seems intuitive, but it's not actually true. I suggest looking up zero-knowledge proofs. Using modern cryptography, it is easy to send a machine-generated proof to your social media provider that your government-provided ID says your age is ≥ 16, without revealing anything else about…
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Minors dont get full constitutional protections. I think they should have more rights than they do, but the first amendment is already more limited for minors than for adults.
Tinker v. Des Moines has repeatedly been chipped away (e.g. Bethel School District v. Frasier).
Minors cant produce pornography.
Minors have their freedom of association and expression limited by employment laws.
Minors speech is not free at home due to parental control or at school.
Minors can’t consent to medical treatment which limits their ability to discuss sensitive issues.
Minors cant vote or run for public office, which limits their direct participation in political expression and civil engagement.
Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16
#355Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lately I'm repeatedly reminded of how in Ecuador citizens, when interviewed during a protest, see it as a normal thing to tell their name as well as their personal ID number into the camera when also speaking about their position in regards of the protest. They stand to what they are saying without hiding. Since about half a year I've noticed the German Twitter section getting sunk in hate posts, people disrespecting…
People have zero qualms about being absolute ghouls under their wallet names. The people with the most power in society don't need anonymity. The people with the least often can't safely express themselves without it. Also: https://theconversation.com/online-anonymity-study-found-sta... >> "What matters, it seems, is not so much whether you are commenting anonymously, but whether you are invested in your persona and…
There are two points which matter:
- No more bots or fake propaganda accounts.
- Illegal content, such as insults or the like, will not get published. And if it does, it will have direct consequences.
I'm also not tending towards a requirement to have all social networks ID'd, but I think that a Twitter alternative which enables a more serious discussion should exist. A place where politicians and journalists or just citizens can post their content and get commented on it, without all that extreme toxicity from Twitter.
Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16
#356Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16
#357[deleted]
Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16
#358Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think a perfectly clear line could be drawn that would separate out phpBB from TikTok very easily. I genuinely don't understand this comment, we shouldn't do it because it's hard or the results might be imperfect?
I think your comment would be much stronger if you laid out precisely what you think that line would be. Laws do not have to be perfect to be good, but they do have to be workable. It's not clear that there's a working definition of "social media" that includes both TikTok and Reddit but doesn't include random forums.
So if a random person on the internet doesn't have a perfect solution then it shouldn't be considered?
Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16
#359Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also social policy enforcement is a generational thing. The UK is only just getting toward outright banning cigarettes by making it illegal for anyone born after X date from ever buying them. Eventually you have a whole generation that isn't exposed to smoking and on the whole thinks the habit is disgusting, which it is.
Except that some people born after that date will still acquire them, get addicted, and then what? Prosecute them like drug possession? It's infantilizing and dumb. Grown adults should be allowed to smoke tobacco if they so wish and smoking rates are already way down due to marketing and alternatives. Noone needs to be prosecuted.
I think it's hyperbolic to look at tobacco like other drugs. Tobacco is a lifestyle thing, it doesn't get you high, it's a cultural habit. There are only upsides to getting rid of the social demand for it.
If you think taking tobacco away from consumers is infantilizing, why yes, yes it is. We are dealing with children's futures. Adults get to continue smoking, children less likely to even want to smoke as the social acceptance goes down and with that there is less and less desire to smoke. Nicotine doesn't do much other than get you addicted, no one is chasing after a pronounced high with it, people start smoking because it's perceived as cool.
I can't imagine an adult wanting to start smoking, most adults get addicted in their teens.
I think you have have an import ban, and a black market, and still see significant gains in eroding the demand. I do not think people should be prosecuted for possession, but the UK will probably make some bad decisions there, but that doesn't mean the overall policy is bad.
Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16
#360Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm curious how this will be implemented The only way to determine age is to compile a database of gov-issued IDs and related data. Which is an unconstitutional barrier to speech. Which is why this will get struck-down like each similar law. The part about ID data eventually being shared with 3rd parties, agencies - and/or leaked - is a bonus.
It sounds like you are envisioning age verification that involves just two parties: the user and the site that they need to prove their age to. The user shows the site their government issued ID and the site uses the information on the ID to verify the age. That would indeed allow the site to compile a database of government issues IDs and give that information (willfully or via leaks) to third parties. Those issues…
> It sounds like you are envisioning age verification that involves just two parties: the user and the site that they need to prove their age to. ... Those issues can be fixed by using a three party system.
Okay. That sounds promising.
However the method of collecting childrens' private data isn't what makes these laws unconstitutional. It's a government erecting broad, restrictive barriers to speech.
ref: https://reason.com/2023/09/19/federal-judge-blocks-californi...
ref: https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/31/23854369/texas-porn-age-v...
ref: https://www.techdirt.com/2023/09/13/you-cant-wish-away-the-1...
ref: http://mediashift.org/2009/01/u-s-supreme-court-finally-kill...
ref: https://netchoice.org/district-court-halts-unconstitutional-...
Utah caught a glimpse or reality and stayed their own unconstitutional law. They seem to looking for a way to retool it so it won't be quite so trivial to strike down.
ref: https://kslnewsradio.com/2073740/utahs-social-media-child-pr...