Live data from Hacker News

Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

abcnews.go.com

151–160 of 720 posts

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#151

I don’t know where I saw this idea but instead of banning just force these companies to make their feed algorithms open source. It would be much less heavy handed and would freedom increasing instead of decreasing. It would work because There would be enough outrage over seeing nefarious topics being pushed that the companies would refrain.

I agree with where you're coming from, but publicly documenting their feed algorithms (which is what a call for "open source" effectively is) wouldn't change much. What is actually needed are open API access to the data models, so that competitive non-user-hostile clients can flourish.

I believe this would be legally straightforward by regulating based on the longstanding antitrust concept of bundling - just because someone chooses use to use Facebook's data hosting product, or their messaging products, does not mean they should also be forced to use any of Facebook's proprietary user interface products.

This would not solve the collective action problem where it's hard for an individual parent(/kid) to individually reject social media, but I also don't see this bill doing much besides making it so that kids have to make sure their fake birthday is three years earlier than the one they already had to make up due to COPPA. Of course the politicians pushing this bill are likely envisioning strict identity verification to stop that, but such blanket totalitarianism should be soundly rejected by all.

Unfortunately the larger problem here is that the digital surveillance industry has been allowed to grow and fester for decades with very few constraints. Now it's gotten so big and its effects so pervasive that none of the general solutions to reigning it in (like similarly, a US GDPR) are apparent to politicians. It's all just lashing out at symptoms.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#152

I guess for me it depends on what the law considers "social media". Is something like the bulletin boards we used to have around the late 90s/early 2000s social media? What about chat rooms? Local social web sites for the school or your city? I think a lot of these things can even be beneficial, if I think about my own experiences as a somewhat introverted teenager. And what about things like Netflix, Youtube, Podcas…

> I guess for me it depends on what the law considers "social media".

It's a bill written by the Florida House of Representatives, so there's a definition there. Mind you, it's the Florida House, which has put out some extremely bad laws in its current session -- from "Parental Rights in Education" to the Disney speech retaliation. But given that this is a less ostensibly partisan issue, there are reasons for hope.

The definition seems narrowly tailored. I think that part (d)1d is a questionable choice, since most social media platforms will probably argue that they are not really "designed" to be addictive (for various definitions of "designed" and "addictive"). It appears that specific exemptions were made for YouTube, Craigslist and LinkedIn (without mentioning those companies by name), and algorithmic content selection is part of the definition. This is one of the better versions of this law I could imagine being written by a state legislature, though it isn't without its faults. It's nice to see my home state in the news for something good for once.

I agree that YouTube is a particularly difficult case. But part of the problem comes from using it as a digital pacifier, rather than peer pressure. There's no particular reason why the technology market should produce a free stream of child-appropriate videos. Ad-supported media has its ups and downs, but when the targets of those ads are young children, it's much harder to defend. And parents have more control over the behavior of their 4-year-olds than their 14-year-olds.

Here's the definition:

>(d) "Social media platform:"

>1. Means an online forum, website, or application offered39 by an entity that does all of the following:

>a. Allows the social media platform to track the activity of the account holder.

>b. Allows an account holder to upload content or view the content or activity of other account holders.

>c. Allows an account holder to interact with or track other account holders.

>d. Utilizes addictive, harmful, or deceptive design features, or any other feature that is designed to cause an account holder to have an excessive or compulsive need to use or engage with the social media platform.

>e. Allows the utilization of information derived from the social media platform's tracking of the activity of an account holder to control or target at least part of the content offered to the account holder.

>2. Does not include an online service, website, or application where the predominant or exclusive function is:

>a. Electronic mail.

>b. Direct messaging consisting of text, photos, or videos that are sent between devices by electronic means whe re messages are shared between the sender and the recipient only, visible to the sender and the recipient, and are not posted publicly.

>c. A streaming service that provides only licensed media in a continuous flow from the service, website, or application to the end user and does not obtain a license to the media from a user or account holder by agreement to its terms of service.

>d. News, sports, entertainment, or other content that is preselected by the provider and not user generated, and any chat, comment, or interactive functionality that is provided incidental to, directly related to, or dependent upon provision of the content.

>e. Online shopping or e-commerce, if the interaction with other users or account holders is generally limited to the ability to upload a post and comment on reviews or display lists or collections of goods for sale or wish lists, or other functions that are focused on online shopping or e-commerce rather than interaction between users or account holders.

> f. Interactive gaming, virtual gaming, or an online service, that allows the creation and uploading of content for the purpose of interactive gaming, edutainment, or associated entertainment, and the communication related to that content.

> g. Photo editing that has an associated photo hosting service, if the interaction with other users or account holders is generally limited to liking or commenting.

> h. A professional creative network for showcasing and discovering artistic content, if the content is required to be non-pornographic.

> i. Single-purpose community groups for public safety if the interaction with other users or account holders is generally limited to that single purpose and the community group has guidelines or policies against illegal content.

> j. To provide career development opportunities, including professional networking, job skills, learning certifications, and job posting and application services.

> k. Business to business software.

> l. A teleconferencing or videoconferencing service that allows reception and transmission of audio and video signals for real time communication.

> m. Shared document collaboration.

> n. Cloud computing services, which may include cloud o. To provide access to or interacting with data visualization platforms, libraries, or hubs.

> p. To permit comments on a digital news website, if the news content is posted only by the provider of the digital news website.

> q. To provide or obtain technical support for a platform, product, or service.

> r. Academic, scholarly, or genealogical research where the majority of the content that is posted or created is posted or created by the provider of the online service, website, or application and the ability to chat, comment, or interact with other users is directly related to the provider's content.

> s. A classified ad service that only permits the sale of goods and prohibits the solicitation of personal services or that is used by and under the direction of an educational entity, including:

> (I) A learning management system;

> (II) A student engagement program; and

> (III) A subject or skill-specific program.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#153
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents don’t have the right to get their kids a tattoo, vote or buy alcohol before a regulated age. Is this different?

Actually, in many states there is no minimum age to get a tattoo with parental consent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_tattooing_in_t...

That is…shocking

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so?

A massive, decades-long decline in the habit? Stemming from ad restrictions, warning labels, media campaigns, taxation, legal action by states/Feds, etc.

This must be why there’s not 50 vape shops in my town with big neon signs.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so?

A massive, decades-long decline in the habit? Stemming from ad restrictions, warning labels, media campaigns, taxation, legal action by states/Feds, etc.

Have you not seen people vaping at a young age now?

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#156

Government needs modern digital first ID/authentication services.

First, we need privacy regulation (eg a US port of the GDPR) that stops the existing widespread abuses of identification and personal data, especially the abuses being facilitated by the current identification systems. Only after this is fixed does it make sense to talk about increasing the technical strength of identification.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m normally anti-regulation as well, but as a parent I’m fully on board with this. The amount of peer pressure to be on social media is insane.

Are you asserting that parents should not have the rights to determine this for their own children?

Parents can make accounts to use on collaboration with their children.

The law prevents the corporation from directly engaging with the child without parental oversight.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably, but that's a tough nut to crack. A significant chunk of the American public is insanely anti-federal ID.

Doesn’t need to be federal, because it’s digital it can be distributed and portable instead of centralized. If it respects privacy, is secure and convenient and optional, people would love it.

That's true, however I'm not sure I trust "Big Tech" to self-manage this system. After all, "Big Tech" are the ones that forced us into needing this legislation in the first place. And they don't have a great track record at protecting PII.

The federal government already has all the info it needs to run an ID program.

But, I'd be open to debate on who should do it.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#159
post #70
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they can say goodbye to most online gaming. I wonder how people will feel about this when they realize their kids can’t play games anymore?

According to another comment[1], video games are exempted. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39176380

This exempts almost everyone and everything. lol

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#160
post #8
post #2

This makes me think of how, as a child, every site asked “are you over 13”, and I diligently clicked “yes”. Some more clever sites asked for my birth year… forcing me to do the arduous work of taking the current year and subtracting 14. Though I suppose the real plan here is to pass the law and then have the government selectively prosecute social media companies for having users under 16.

> have the government selectively prosecute social media companies for having users under 16. The US government is already legally mandated to prosecute companies known to harbor information, collected online, concerning minors less than 13 years old without consent from their parents or legal guardians.[1] It's why Youtube blocks comments and doesn't personalize ads on videos published for kids, to pick out a promin…

Laws are getting stricter. Around the world, there is increasing regulatory requirement for businesses to actively investigate user behavior (tracking!) to identify and exclude underage users who are concealing their age.
Post reply on HN