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Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

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Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#161

Post by Duff »

Tloewald wrote: post #133
beedogs wrote: post #110

Apple's really become a shitty company in the past few years. I was rooting for them when OS X was introduced, but now they're no better than Microsoft in the late 90s, and somehow more arrogant than MS ever was. How does something like this not run afoul of antitrust laws?

If Apple were like Microsoft in the 90s then they would have implemented their own Flash player for the iPad and made its frequent crashes look like Adobe's fault, they'd make it impossible to uninstall or remove Safari from the desktop or dock, and switch Chrome and Firefox for Safari as your default browser every time you upgraded Safari (which would be every time you patched). Every time a mew version of OSX shipp…

I recall using Netscape in 1998 or so on Windows Nt. Where do I find the download link for Chrome or Safari on iOS?

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#162

Post by marknutter »

tptacek wrote: post #96
nknight wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Thomas, it isn't, because I'm not arguing you are wrong because it's you making the statements. On the contrary, as I said, you are largely correct. I'm arguing you're being an ass. Separate issue.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I think you guys have gotten off topic..

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#163

Post by roguecoder »

skeletonjelly wrote: post #29
taligent wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Research antitrust. It doesn't mean what you think it means. 2) Apple has done nothing different than has been done before. It is an existing in app purchasing rule.

How many number of links is the limit? If the mobile site had a link to Google, and Google had an ad for Google Apps, because it's within the webview, does that still mean it's in app purchasing?

It sounds like it is entirely possible. Of course, like everything else in the App Store it probably depends on whether Apple A) thinks your service is a competitor to theirs and B) has anchovies for dinner last night.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#164

Post by ChuckMcM »

rogerchucker wrote: post #88
ChuckMcM wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, Google is probably not capable of exploiting these mini-resentments and I don't think anybody else is either. I'd love to hear more about that. This is my reasoning on why I think there is an opportunity there: Lets say (patent issues not withstanding), you created an exact clone of the iPad and iOS and sold it at the same price but without the 30% 'apple tax' on purchases. It seems reasonable to assum…

Are there a lot of examples, where an open and developer-friendly platform came from behind and usurped the incumbent that was also dominant in the market? I'm not sure the Mac-PC analogy flies here since Mac wasn't dominant - it was simply an incumbent. The only remotely-related example I can think of, given my limited knowledge and wisdom, is MySpace vs Facebook. But then again, I am not aware if MySpace was a wall…

There are not a lot of examples. However, the markets adjust. [And for those trying to second guess me, there isn't any hidden message in the message or anything]

One of the areas that hasn't been explored a whole lot in the product space is 'moderated open' which is how I think of the Linux Kernel. You can change it all you want, get the source, etc, but if you want to get into the kernel that everyone else sees you have to go through Linus. He keeps the quality pretty high by doing that. It was similar to FreeBSD as 'open source' but 'moderated commits.'

Now in the tablet space I have yet to see someone to take that path. There do not seem to be too many successes for business people to draw on for inspiration. That being said, as an example the Kindle Fire has sold a lot of units. And it is a completely legit argument that Amazon 'makes it up in book sales' (which is their business model) much like the iPod can be subsidized by iTunes purchases.

And I am sympathetic to mladenkovacevic's comment about a wild and free ecosystem can be more useful/desirable than a locked down one. But I also recognize that there are lots of folks who are interested in the product, not deeply technical, and chafe under Apple's restrictions on developers.

If anyone could 'afford' to make a run at this, Google could. And perhaps they will with a 'Google Experience' tablet that has been rumored.

I understand your lack of hope given the things you have seen so far. Back in the before times of personal computers when they had lights and switches on the front, the introduction of the IBM PC for the 'suits' was a huge pain. And really successful brands at the time got pushed aside. Google pushed aside Alta Vista, Sun pushed aside DEC, Compaq/Dell pushed aside the IBM PC, and Android phones at least have put a huge crimp in Apple's style.

Interesting to see how this evolves.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#165

Post by politician »

Retric wrote: post #125
recoiledsnake wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, because the comments on other HN posts read like "There is no tablet market, there is only an iPad market", "Apple makes 80% of the money in the cell phone market, Apple is the only one making any money", "If you want to make money selling apps, the App Store is the best since it has the paying customers, Android is full of cheapskate freeloaders who want your app for free and install adblock". With the…

There is no contradiction, Apple 'owns' the high end market where people actually pay for apps. But, as a percentage of overall phone / tablet OS there well under 40% so it's hard to call them a monopoly.

So... they have a monopoly on the end of the market where there is money?

Why is this a distinction?

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#167

Post by baddox »

greggman wrote: post #142
jvm wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think parent was speaking as a consumer, not moralizing about it. In the eyes of the law or economics, of course this is completely reasonable, it is absolutely Apple's right to do this. But the consumer experience is horrible, something parent is probably not used to from Apple.

Is it Apple's right to do this? Didn't IBM lose the case where they said you can only run IBM software on IBM 360s? IANAL but it sure would be nice for someone that is to speak up on why many of these old cases don't apply. Is it that it is legal, Apple just doesn't have to feature it in their store? Phone companies were forced to allow 3rd party phones on their network. So where/are mobile companies as far as I know…

> Is it Apple's right to do this?

It should be.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#168

Post by roguecoder »

cooldeal wrote: post #76
rogerchucker wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people characterizing this as "too far" are ignorant of that fact that Apple is within its rights to enforce whatever they want to. I think the thread is more about "is Apple being a dick here?"... Unfortunately, Google is probably not capable of exploiting these mini-resentments and I don't think anybody else is either.

For what it's worth, Windows 8 App Store will not restrict in-app purchasing like the iOS App Store does.

It's great to hear that Microsoft intends to be accommodating. However, unless you can convince at least 5% of my mobile users to buy a Windows Phone it's going to be hard to justify the extra effort for a third app.

Personally, the idea of hardware-accelerated HTML5/JS apps makes my heart sing, so I'm really hoping it takes off with consumers. Maybe it'll be the best texting phone ever and every teenager in the world will swap. A dude can dream...

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#169

Post by baddox »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #23
taligent wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Research antitrust. It doesn't mean what you think it means. 2) Apple has done nothing different than has been done before. It is an existing in app purchasing rule.

"Competition law, known in the United States as antitrust law, is law that promotes or maintains market competition by regulating anti-competitive conduct by companies."[1] One could argue that rejecting apps that make use of (or in this case encourage signup to) Dropbox is anti-competitive conduct since Dropbox is a competitor of iCloud (isn't it?) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_law

One could also argue that producing a better quality product at a lower price is anticompetitive. That's why I've never understood laws banning "anticompetitive behavior."

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#170

Post by nupark2 »

davepeck wrote: post #24
kennywinker wrote: post #18

This has gone way too far. The other day I downloaded the Google Play Books app. I started it up, signed in.. and nothing. No prompt to go buy books online, no hint at what the app does... just a blank screen. It's completely scummy. You can buy Apple's iCloud storage upgrade from within the OS, and now you can't even LINK to a place where you could link to a place where if you click the right link you could buy Drop…

It's awful, and it's painful for everyone -- not just those using the DropBox APIs. The origins of these clauses are with iBooks and the Kindle app for iOS. I wrote about it in a recent blog post: http://davepeck.org/2011/11/04/kindle-clauses/

In terms of UX and as a consumer, I'd rather the Dropbox API not open a browser or even another app. That is not the best UX, it doesn't provide a security advantage, and it's simply not being done to benefit the consumer. This may not be Apple's primary rational for rejecting these apps, but I'm glad they're doing it.

As for the payment question, simply in terms of UX and as a consumer, I want only one payment provider and account on the device. I hate pulling my credit card out and remembering my password for the nth account.

Consumers are happy with the platform. Look at the sales numbers and earnings reports. Obviously companies like Dropbox see the value in the platform too -- I just wish they'd take the time to understand why it has that value, and why Apple has huge profits and very happy users.

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