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Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

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Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#81
post #14
post #6

I can not be the only one thinking there is an antitrust issue here? I would guess the book thing means Apple is under quite a bit of scrutiny. While I'm not involved in mobile, I've had similar experiences for over half a decade dealing with the banal, highly questionable, and non-uniformly enforced rules Google imposes on its own advertisers. Some of the stuff is bad enough it makes you think it would fall under RI…

[deleted]

Anti-trust is based on behavior, not strictly market size.

If you're going to pull in market size, you've got to play to the relevant market as well.

One of the difficulties of anti-trust law is that it's fundamentally about power, which is not something economists have a particularly good measure for, nor are they particularly equipped to find (or be interested in finding) measurements for.

Even in a monopoly/monopsony or oligopoly/oligopsony cannot dictate both price and quantity (supply/demand curve), though in the traditional economic efficiency argument of the Chicago (free market) School, the concentration of buying/selling power means that (for sell-side concentration) prices are higher and quantities are lower, or (for buy-side concentration) prices are lower and quantities are higher, and more net value accrues to the side with greater concentration. The Chicago School cries tears over lost market efficiency.

But that's a far smaller problem than that monopoly allows the monopolist to choose winners. Maybe not for all time, but it's the same argument that's been used against command economies, bailouts, and even just plain government regulation. Generally wrongly in the last case, and mostly in the second.

Free markets are based on the principle that buyers, sellers, and ideas meet on equal footing. Where an entity or cabal can select winners, what you've got is no longer a free market.

Which is a pity, as free markets are generally powerful forces for good.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#82
post #77

After reading through the thread it seems they are rejecting apps because a piece of the Dropbox SDK breaks the App Store guidelines. They are not simply rejecting Dropbox integrated apps. It's well known that you cannot link the user to make a purchase outside of the iOS ecosystem. It was a huge issue with the eBook apps last years. I'm not saying I agree with Apple's stance on that but they are not rejecting apps w…

That wasn't really linking the user to make a purchase, it was somebody following a silly path of links from the initial target to arrive at a place where they could buy something. Maybe it was an honest (if overzealous) call by an app reviewer. Or maybe it was one of Apple's regular and brutal attempts at keeping direct competitors from benefiting from their platform. We don't know yet which, though I guess we'll kn…

It wasn't linking them directly but they eventually followed a path where the could make a purchase. I guess it's kind of a grey area but Apple's reviewers tend to side against you when it comes to grey areas.

I don't totally agree with their stance on this but I can see why it was rejected.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#83

After reading through the thread it seems they are rejecting apps because a piece of the Dropbox SDK breaks the App Store guidelines. They are not simply rejecting Dropbox integrated apps. It's well known that you cannot link the user to make a purchase outside of the iOS ecosystem. It was a huge issue with the eBook apps last years. I'm not saying I agree with Apple's stance on that but they are not rejecting apps w…

They are rejecting apps that use the v1.0 or greater of the Dropbox SDK, or apps that use the Dropbox OAUTH API.

Or, perhaps they're rejects apps that allow you to create a Dropbox account. That would cover all versions of the Dropbox SDK.

The specific reasons they gave are:

- "This app contains a link that takes the user to Dropbox via Safari".

- "The concern with this app is that the user is taken to Dropbox's website, if they do not have Dropbox installed on their device, where they have the option to purchase additional storage space."

How would you read that? They seem to suggest that you can't link to any page on dropbox.com.

The problem is that neither Dropbox's login page nor their create-account page provide any links for purchasing anything, nor do they provide links to Dropbox's main site. http://rfc64k.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/dj-xhtrivxl.png

So it seems that merely because the login page is hosted at Dropbox.com, it is forbidden because Dropbox.com can be used for purchasing things. That would rule out all forms of OAUTH.

Their proposed solution was to remove the "Create Account" link, but it's not at all clear whether that was the original problem, or whether it solves anything.

The bottom line is that if your app currently uses any version of the Dropbox SDK or the Dropbox OAUTH API your app may be rejected and you're now in a state of limbo.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#85
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

So if Apple and Samsung independently do this, there can be norecourse since both of them aren't monopolies even if they have around 90% marketshare together. Even though the harmful effects on the market is the same. I guess that explains why the US wireless and cable franchies suck and have the lowest consumer ratings.

"So if Apple and Samsung independently do this, there can be norecourse since both of them aren't monopolies even if they have around 90% marketshare together. Even though the harmful effects on the market is the same."

No, abuse of oligarchies and cartels are illegal too.

It is generally understood that small numbers of entities can form oligarchies with no explicit coordination, so independence isn't necessarily a defense either.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft got hauled through the courts and turned into the EU's personal cash-register for doing similar things in 'their town'.

But in this case, the town is not 90% of the geography. Last i heard Google's town is bigger and there is also RIM Town (mass exodus happening there), a new WP7 town (lots of airport signs) and a few others around.

I don't think you need a certain percentage of a market for this to start becoming a antitrust issue. And it could be argued that they have a strong monopoly on Tablets at this time.

If this doesn't feel like anticompetitive behaviour, I don't know what does. They are using their rather large position in the smartphone/tablet market to enter another market (in this case storage) and snuff out the competition. And there are other examples.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#87
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In light of your recent rantings about "nerds"[1] and the law, it's hard to see your post as anything other than a continuation of your angry attacks on anyone who dares speak on the subject of the laws governing our hypothetically-democratic society. Your authoritarianism has degenerated into simple mockery. Even when you are right (which I think you largely are on this matter), you no longer contribute anything of…

You’re missing the point of tptacek’s criticism. He’s not trying to mock nerds, but rather to point out that their mental model of how the law works is woefully mismatched to how the law actually works, with a great deal of resulting whining and handwringing that could be avoided if they bothered to learn and think a bit about it. That I’ve seen, there’s been very little anger or ranting coming from his direction, an…

Like hell he isn't. Go back through his comment history. He's arrogant, dismissive, presumptuous, and yes, outright mocking. This is, intermittently, his MO on other subjects as well, notably infosec, but it's been particularly bad of late in legal subjects.

I've often corrected many of the kind of misapprehensions he seems to see himself as on a crusade against, and it has never been necessary for me to adopt his abysmal attitude in the process.

Edit: To answer your added bit at the end, which has changed several times, I'm interpreting it in light of him. Hence my references to his past history. Some months ago, he went through a particularly nasty period, and when I called him on it, he outright admitted he was intentionally being a jerk.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people characterizing this as "too far" are ignorant of that fact that Apple is within its rights to enforce whatever they want to. I think the thread is more about "is Apple being a dick here?"... Unfortunately, Google is probably not capable of exploiting these mini-resentments and I don't think anybody else is either.

Unfortunately, Google is probably not capable of exploiting these mini-resentments and I don't think anybody else is either. I'd love to hear more about that. This is my reasoning on why I think there is an opportunity there: Lets say (patent issues not withstanding), you created an exact clone of the iPad and iOS and sold it at the same price but without the 30% 'apple tax' on purchases. It seems reasonable to assum…

Are there a lot of examples, where an open and developer-friendly platform came from behind and usurped the incumbent that was also dominant in the market? I'm not sure the Mac-PC analogy flies here since Mac wasn't dominant - it was simply an incumbent. The only remotely-related example I can think of, given my limited knowledge and wisdom, is MySpace vs Facebook. But then again, I am not aware if MySpace was a walled garden and made its residents claustrophobic.

Based on the examples I have witnessed, I simply do not have any hope in the existence of an open platform with Apple-esque quality and eco-system (the assumption being viable eco-system automatically implies major market share).

Sorry if I spoke in circles!

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why this is linkbait? Apple is indeed rejecting apps which use Dropbox.

No. They are blocking applications which allow you to make purchases without using Apples in app purchasing system. See the difference ?

The difference is that the title will go over 80 characters and won't make it to HN, this is not Reddit.

I don't get the complaints about the HN title, it's reasonably accurate given the space limitations and the forum further clarifies things. Not everything can fit in the title.

Also, I see a distinct lack of suggestions of a better title, just complaints that it's link bait.

Re: Apple rejecting applications which use Dropbox

#90

What's remarkable is that Apple is suppopsedly desintined to be the most profitable company in US history and they still feel the need to do this kind of thing. It says a lot about the character of the company. Pretty sad spectacle, no matter how much money they make.:wq

It also says a lot about you that you posted this whilst having a fundamental lack of knowledge about the situation. Did you even read what you linked to ?

What did I link to? I'm well aware of the Apple "rules" as well as the rationale behind them. If you have superiror knowledge about Apple that puts them in a better light, then please share details.
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