Stack Overflow: 79% of Developers Considering a Career Move • Hacker News Board

Re: Stack Overflow: 79% of Developers Considering a Career Move

#21

Post by mvdtnz » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 10:22 PM UTC

hypothesis wrote: post #10

billy99k wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Peoplw should change jobs and should optimize for better working conditions and fair treatment" I get that we need this, but now is not the time to do it. It's an employers market and when you leave your current job, there will be 100+ applicants waiting to replace you and you will have just as much competition finding your next job.

What makes you think that employers are not looking to replace everyone right now? It would make sense to me if there are 100x replacement queue, presumably desperate to accept lower pay, right now. All the more reasons to make a move if you can.

In my experience, if you have a decent tenure in an organisation where institutional knowledge trumps documentation (a dysfunction, but a common one) then you're not likely to be forced out and replaced with someone cheaper. That institutional knowledge has value.

> All the more reasons to make a move if you can.

So that you too can be one of the job seekers "desperate to accept lower pay, right now"?

Re: Stack Overflow: 79% of Developers Considering a Career Move

#22

Post by mvdtnz » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 10:26 PM UTC

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #17

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #4

I'm just one data point, but after quitting a 12-year position writing RFID related apps, I'm raising chickens and writing. There are no jobs for me; even for positions that totally align with my skills, the employers express no interest. For one thing, they get hundreds of applicants per posting. For another, DEI. One nice thing--my old employer is hiring me back on a consulting basis. Meanwhile, I'm retraining and…

>For another, DEI. What is DEI?

Diversity, equity and inclusion. In extreme cases, this is affirmative action. Hopefully in most cases it means hiring managers keeping an open mind and checking their biases when comparing candidates of differing genders and cultural backgrounds.

Re: Stack Overflow: 79% of Developers Considering a Career Move

#23

Post by twojobsoneboss » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 10:36 PM UTC

happytiger wrote: post #6

This seems more like a social commentary about job satisfaction for the career at almost 80%, but I suspect the pattern of movement that the “only way to get a significant salary upgrade is to switch jobs” is the secret pressure. There are a LOT of disincentives to moving right now, especially with coast housing stock being at record cost and such low levels. Add to the fact that employers seem to be having a great t…

Even if you can find a sw Eng job, salaries have dropped to ~2019-2020 levels

Factor in inflation since then and it’s a huge effective pay drop

Re: Stack Overflow: 79% of Developers Considering a Career Move

#24

Post by timeagain » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 10:36 PM UTC

g00gler wrote: post #18

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #4

I'm just one data point, but after quitting a 12-year position writing RFID related apps, I'm raising chickens and writing. There are no jobs for me; even for positions that totally align with my skills, the employers express no interest. For one thing, they get hundreds of applicants per posting. For another, DEI. One nice thing--my old employer is hiring me back on a consulting basis. Meanwhile, I'm retraining and…

> There are no jobs for me; even for positions that totally align with my skills, the employers express no interest. I often wonder who they have working there and applying that is so much better than me they won’t grant me an interview. I’ve always been a top performer so it’s really quite puzzling.

Top performers are divas. Much better to have an average youngster who can be more readily abused.

Re: Stack Overflow: 79% of Developers Considering a Career Move

#25

Post by billy99k » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 10:36 PM UTC

hypothesis wrote: post #10

billy99k wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Peoplw should change jobs and should optimize for better working conditions and fair treatment" I get that we need this, but now is not the time to do it. It's an employers market and when you leave your current job, there will be 100+ applicants waiting to replace you and you will have just as much competition finding your next job.

What makes you think that employers are not looking to replace everyone right now? It would make sense to me if there are 100x replacement queue, presumably desperate to accept lower pay, right now. All the more reasons to make a move if you can.

ok, make your move. Reddit is filled with people that thought this way and have now been unemployed with no job in sight or were forced to take a job at reduced pay.

Like waiting in the stock market, I would make my move when it's an employees market. This way, you actually have some negotiating power.

Re: Stack Overflow: 79% of Developers Considering a Career Move

#26

Post by FirmwareBurner » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 10:44 PM UTC

mvdtnz wrote: post #22

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For another, DEI. What is DEI?

Diversity, equity and inclusion. In extreme cases, this is affirmative action. Hopefully in most cases it means hiring managers keeping an open mind and checking their biases when comparing candidates of differing genders and cultural backgrounds.

Is this that US thing I heard about where women and minorities of color get hiring priority over white men?

Re: Stack Overflow: 79% of Developers Considering a Career Move

#27

Post by ReptileMan » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 10:55 PM UTC

theshackleford wrote: post #20

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For another, DEI. What is DEI?

[flagged]

Well ... people start to learn the ropes of crybulling. A lot of people exploit for decades racism as "The boogeyman they can conveniently blame for all their problems." So it is not unusual for others to join the party of being victims as well.

Re: Stack Overflow: 79% of Developers Considering a Career Move

#28

Post by beer_backwards » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 10:56 PM UTC

my two cents (from personal experience): Getting money when you are from low SES is not that stimulating, because the money is inevitably spent on mundane purchases: i.e. buying a new pair of school shoes or school supplies, or beef instead of chicken for a meal that week, or fixing your car.

If that money would be able to be spent on anything that the child desired, then I am sure that even a lower-SES would be more excited.

I fundamentally believe that the higher-SES you are, the more agency you have (especially financial), where lower-SES are in constant survival mode. It is hard to get excited by small sums of money when you know that it will just be immediately spent on boring things.

Re: Stack Overflow: 79% of Developers Considering a Career Move

#29

Post by sneed_chucker » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 11:28 PM UTC

beer_backwards wrote: post #28

my two cents (from personal experience): Getting money when you are from low SES is not that stimulating, because the money is inevitably spent on mundane purchases: i.e. buying a new pair of school shoes or school supplies, or beef instead of chicken for a meal that week, or fixing your car. If that money would be able to be spent on anything that the child desired, then I am sure that even a lower-SES would be more…

Does "SES" mean "socio-economic status"?

Re: Stack Overflow: 79% of Developers Considering a Career Move

#30

Post by happytiger » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 11:29 PM UTC

twojobsoneboss wrote: post #23

happytiger wrote: post #6

This seems more like a social commentary about job satisfaction for the career at almost 80%, but I suspect the pattern of movement that the “only way to get a significant salary upgrade is to switch jobs” is the secret pressure. There are a LOT of disincentives to moving right now, especially with coast housing stock being at record cost and such low levels. Add to the fact that employers seem to be having a great t…

Even if you can find a sw Eng job, salaries have dropped to ~2019-2020 levels Factor in inflation since then and it’s a huge effective pay drop

Absolutely, my best reading is 9 percent anfter factoring the official inflation numbers and it’s really affecting the greener staff. But it’s still double the average US knowledge worker.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/tech-salaries-are-dropping-her...

I think it’s pretty unevenly distributed. Definitely affecting some segments more than others. Everyone I know who’s a general purpose software engineer is worried (almost), but everyone I know working in AI really is not.

I’ve seen this show before though. This happened in 2001 and 2009 as well…