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iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

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Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#161

Post by nulld3v »

pbh101 wrote: post #122
ankurdhama wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people think that iOS will become like Windows when we all know that iOS (and Android) were designed with app sandboxing from start and not like Windows where a program can do anything it wants to.

EU could decide next that app sandboxing is anticompetitive restrictive gatekeeper behavior and force Apple to change that too. It too violates the ‘it is my hardware let me do what I want’ ethos expressed in this comment section.

And they should because full access to your own electronics should be a right, not a privilege.

Android already provides the option to root their phones and no reasonable user would go through the process to root their phone!

Even iOS had jailbreaks for a long time and exactly what kind of harm has that brought to the iOS ecosystem? Zero. Nothing.

The process to root/jailbreak definitely should not be an easy process because most users should definitely not be doing it. But it must exist.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#162

Post by throwaway1507 »

rezonant wrote: post #159
throwaway1507 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Up until now I was entitled to choose a strong platform that forced the developers to play nicely. Now I lost that so indeed as you're saying, not using the app is my only choice. But that's bad, I want the strong platform back. I left Android just few years ago precisely because I liked the guarantees of the iOS platform - now it's going to be just another shitty privacy nightmare like the hellscape of Android…

Your argument works just the same the other way. > I don't understand why people can't just buy an Android if that's what they like. I don't understand why you people can't just use the apps they trust and let me use the ones I trust. I should not have to buy a different device to have the ability to put the software I want on it, and the hardware vendor shouldn't be able to get in my way.

Why did you buy the device in the first place if it doesn't do what you want? And why do you think you are entitled to force its satisfied users to your ways? Just sell it, make a different choice and let us be happy with what we got.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#163

Post by duanem »

yinyang_in wrote: post #115

Apple did lot of efforts building the ecosystem. No government system helped them in it. Now fruits have come up & they want to tweak it to their own taste. If monopoly is causing trouble to small businesses & you’re able to prove it then impose fines & whatever is under the law. But just being jealous & imposition of laws just to target businesses(here almost Apple is being singled out). But this is unpopular opinio…

Apple did not build the ecosystem alone. The ecosystem is made up of the platform, the developers and the users. Lose one of these and you don't have an ecosystem. If all the developers leave, users will leave. If all users leave, developers will leave.

I would argue developers put in just as much, if not more effort.

Apple did not build the ecosystem alone, nor does it own the ecosystem. It is merely acting as a uncool gatekeeper.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#164

Post by addicted »

dehrmann wrote: post #57

Apple's really been acting in bad faith with moves like this and the 27% fee on external payments. Regulators took these actions for a reason, and Apple's doing its best to just barely comply, at the cost of bringing even more attention to itself.

The Apple apologia anti regulation response to this comment is ironic because without anti monopoly protections Apple wouldn’t even exist right now.

Microsoft bailed out Apple with an investment entirely because of anti monopoly regulations.

More importantly, MS kept producing versions of Office and even Internet Explorer IIRC that allowed the Mac to remain an option because of their fear of being regulation.

Then after that it was EU anti monopolist regulations that struck down MS and prevented it from strangling the open web, which allowed the web to become an open platform which made it possible for both the Mac and iPhone (which didn’t even have an App Store on launch and relied entirely on web apps) to exist.

The only success Apple can claim credit that wasn’t directly the result of anti monopoly regulation was the iPod and even that wouldn’t have happened because Apple would have folded if Apple hadn’t been protected by anti monopolist regulations.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#165

Post by addicted »

addicted wrote: post #164
dehrmann wrote: post #57

Apple's really been acting in bad faith with moves like this and the 27% fee on external payments. Regulators took these actions for a reason, and Apple's doing its best to just barely comply, at the cost of bringing even more attention to itself.

The Apple apologia anti regulation response to this comment is ironic because without anti monopoly protections Apple wouldn’t even exist right now. Microsoft bailed out Apple with an investment entirely because of anti monopoly regulations. More importantly, MS kept producing versions of Office and even Internet Explorer IIRC that allowed the Mac to remain an option because of their fear of being regulation. Then af…

Imagine if MS had done the shit Apple is doing and blocked iTunes from Windows because it didn’t “add enough new functionality”.

And then when it eventually did allow a gimped version of iTunes charged Apple 30% of all the music and movies sold on it.

If they were being Apple like they would probably have even started charging 20% of the album price of every music CD users ripped to their iPods using iTunes.

And MS was a far more ruthless company. If it wasn’t afraid of anti monopolistic regulation it would have come up with other ideas I can’t imagine in a 1000 years to have absolutely destroyed Apple.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#166

Post by addicted »

yinyang_in wrote: post #115

Apple did lot of efforts building the ecosystem. No government system helped them in it. Now fruits have come up & they want to tweak it to their own taste. If monopoly is causing trouble to small businesses & you’re able to prove it then impose fines & whatever is under the law. But just being jealous & imposition of laws just to target businesses(here almost Apple is being singled out). But this is unpopular opinio…

If it wasn’t for government regulation Microsoft would have wiped out Apple before the 2000s.

Apple owes its existence to Microsoft’s fear of regulators.

So yeah, every penny of its trillion dollar market share is thanks to government regulation.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#167

Post by fwn »

realusername wrote: post #158
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

F-Droid and all the apps there.

As much as I love F-Droid, I'll put it firmly into the developer community as well.

We all know that sideloading is a well-established method used by millions of people to gain access to software that is not available on the dominant stores.

I didn't think branding them as developers would change anything.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#168

Post by rezonant »

throwaway1507 wrote: post #162
rezonant wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument works just the same the other way. > I don't understand why people can't just buy an Android if that's what they like. I don't understand why you people can't just use the apps they trust and let me use the ones I trust. I should not have to buy a different device to have the ability to put the software I want on it, and the hardware vendor shouldn't be able to get in my way.

Why did you buy the device in the first place if it doesn't do what you want? And why do you think you are entitled to force its satisfied users to your ways? Just sell it, make a different choice and let us be happy with what we got.

This assumes there is one and only one reason to buy an iOS device, and it's because the platform is locked down. But that's not true is it? Is that the one and only reason you like iOS?

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#169

Post by rezonant »

scarface_74 wrote: post #136
rezonant wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sucky platforms that were never good enough, always some weird piece of software that you thought was benign gunking up your system. This is a category error. Your iPhone isn't more stable because Apple charges a premium to developers so that they can invite you to use their apps, it's more stable because of all of the good decisions they make technically around the platform. Your iPhone isn't more stable because A…

And Zoom installed a secret backdoor web server on the Mac…

Welp, company did stupid thing, time to let the OS company have 100% control and profit over the entire computer.

A bit of an outsized response, no?

To be clear, I disagree with Zoom's rationale (avoiding a single confirmation click when the zoom website launches zoom), and I agree with Apple automatically disabling that server for it's customers. That doesn't mean I think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#170

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

crazygringo wrote: post #131
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point is that you've got a choice. Supposing I want to release a free, personal hobby project, app that uses some private APIs in iOS, to solve some long-standing usability or feature-gap within iOS, then no, I don't have a choice: I don't have an option at all: I can't release it in the Apple-run iOS App Store becuase it uses Private APIs, and I can't release it in a third-party App Store as a free app because…

Just because you don't like your choices doesn't mean you don't have one. Before, you only had one set of terms. Now you have two, which may be an improvement for a lot of people. It goes without saying that neither may be your ideal choice. Heck, in an ideal world, my choice would be for Apple to pay me rather than vice-versa! You know, as a little thank-you for making an app for their phone. It's not gonna happen,…

> Just because you don't like your choices doesn't mean you don't have one

But I don't have a choice - how am I supposed to make my JIT-based/IOKit-using/Kernel-mode/Launchpad-extending app available to (informed) potential users?

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