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iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

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Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#141

Post by Eisenstein »

floydnoel wrote: post #66
JoshTriplett wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if that turns out to be the case, then it doesn't need to be enforced, as people will select accordingly. And then, the people who do want to run things that Apple won't permit in the app store (browsers/emulators/JITs/scripting/etc), or that aren't economically viable with a 30% cut, will have the option of doing so. The existence of an option does not force you to choose that option.

until there's another pandemic, and your local government decides everyone has to install their tracking app. or any number of situations where users will be pressured by institutions they don’t have any control over.

Your local government is staffed by people accountable to you, and it is easy enough to call them, and to get everyone you know to call them, and tell them if they do this they will be out of a job next election.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#142

Post by Tijdreiziger »

throwaway1507 wrote: post #137
Tijdreiziger wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can go out and buy a windows machine if I want. Or a windows mobile phone back in the day, or an android phone today. A duopoly does not a free market make.

So that's why they are making the other platform more like the firdt one?

I mean, plenty has been written about the rationale behind the Digital Markets Act (DMA), but you could start with the EU’s own explanation:

> The Digital Markets Act is the EU’s law to make the markets in the digital sector fairer and more contestable. In order to do so, the Digital Markets Act (“DMA”) establishes a set of clearly defined objective criteria to identify “gatekeepers”.

> Gatekeepers are large digital platforms providing so called core platform services, such as online search engines, app stores, messenger services. Gatekeepers will have to comply with the do’s (i.e. obligations) and don’ts (i.e. prohibitions) listed in the DMA.

> The DMA is one of the first regulatory tools to comprehensively regulate the gatekeeper power of the largest digital companies. The DMA complements, but does not change EU competition rules, which continue to apply fully.

https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/about-dma_en

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#143

Post by AlphaCerium »

realusername wrote: post #98
bdcravens wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Choice is good, though I can't help but wonder what % of European customers will start getting their applications from third-parties. In 12 or so years of on-again, off-again usage of Android (usually as a secondary phone), I've sideloaded one app: a pre-release game that I happily pulled down from the official channel once it went "official"

Side loading on Android is just a legal argument in courts, its made too complicated for normal users to use it.

Side loading on android is laughably easy, probably easier than installing a program on a Windows device. If we can consider the installers that Windows users need to use to get something as simple as Chrome installed easy to use, downloading an .apk file and opening it and pressing install should seem trivial by comparison.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#144

Post by AlphaCerium »

realusername wrote: post #102
MatekCopatek wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Are we thinking of the same sideloading? You literally download an app (.apk) like any other file and then open it to start the installation. OK, and the first time you do it, you get a warning and you have to enable loading apps from 3rd party sources.

You can't just open the apk directly, you have to enable installations for the browser and also go to deep in the settings and go past the scary warnings. That's not possible for the average user, not everybody is a developer. That's not a viable distribution channel at scale and that's intended.

When I open an .apk file from a new application for the first time, I get a popup that asks me if I want to allow installations from unknown sources for this app, with a button that directly takes me to the setting to toggle this, and then immediately allows me to install the application.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#145

Post by AlphaCerium »

caslon wrote: post #119
xigoi wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead you want your government to pay money to a (possibly foreign) company just to be able to publish an app?

Historically, Apple has demonstrated more trustworthiness and greater morality than the United States Government, when direct comparison has been available. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%E2%80%93FBI_encryption_d... Even recently, the EU has been pushing for less safety for users. https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/09/eu_casm_expert_identi... More generally, your argument doesn't really hold up. Apple's never o…

I trust a company that stands to only gain a profit from me using their products just as little as the state I reside in, if not less.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#146

Post by AlphaCerium »

throwaway1507 wrote: post #138
rezonant wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you basically want to force your preferences on me No one is forcing you to install third party apps. Are you really unable to control the impulse to install third party app stores on your device? You need Apple to stop you from doing something you don't want to do in the first place? Just because you want to stick in the Apple approved apps doesn't mean that I should have to do the same on my own iPhone.

Maybe I need the app but don't trust the altstore its developer is forcing me to use instead of App Store.

So don't install the app. Simple as that, if the developer wanted you to be a user of their app, they'd have put it on the App Store too.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#147

Post by kjkjadksj »

wtallis wrote: post #61
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point is that you've got a choice. Supposing I want to release a free, personal hobby project, app that uses some private APIs in iOS, to solve some long-standing usability or feature-gap within iOS, then no, I don't have a choice: I don't have an option at all: I can't release it in the Apple-run iOS App Store becuase it uses Private APIs, and I can't release it in a third-party App Store as a free app because…

What makes you think it'll be easier to get away with using private APIs by selling through a different storefront? Isn't Apple is still requiring all apps to be submitted for notarization?

If you have cydia installed, that means you’ve jailbroken the phone and can run unsigned code just fine.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#148

Post by throwaway1507 »

AlphaCerium wrote: post #146
throwaway1507 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I need the app but don't trust the altstore its developer is forcing me to use instead of App Store.

So don't install the app. Simple as that, if the developer wanted you to be a user of their app, they'd have put it on the App Store too.

IOS is a good platform because it forces large app developers that the users have no leverage over to behave. Now that is gone, unfortunately.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#149

Post by FirmwareBurner »

hhh wrote: post #140
ivanmontillam wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is that Europeans will eventually have a better experience with Apple than U.S. residents. It's not my intention to poison the well, but Apple feels like treating its customers like cattle.

I have a feeling I am going to dislike a lot of the changes coming down the pipe. I like things as they are.

Good thing the greater good is more important than what you personally like or dislike. There are people who like to smoke indoors, but thankfully that's also not allowed (everywhere).

Also, nobody is forcing you out of Apple's ranch. You are free to stay locked in if that's what you like. It's the other people who now have an alternative.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#150

Post by d0mine »

ivanmontillam wrote: post #32
mrtksn wrote: post #20

For anyone interested, EU has started an investigation on iPadOS despite not meeting the threshold: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_... The investigation should be completed within 12 months.

The funny thing is that Europeans will eventually have a better experience with Apple than U.S. residents. It's not my intention to poison the well, but Apple feels like treating its customers like cattle.

To distract/exhaust people, pseudo-solutions analogous to cookie pop-ups (do not improve privacy), recommending shorter shower to battle a drought (malicious/idiotic), etc may be suggested.

People interests appear to be used as a rhetoric device, while the actual solutions are harmful to EU business (latest example: AI regulations).

Nothing to be jealous of.

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