Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

9to5mac.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 194 posts

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#101

Post by MatekCopatek »

realusername wrote: post #98
bdcravens wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Choice is good, though I can't help but wonder what % of European customers will start getting their applications from third-parties. In 12 or so years of on-again, off-again usage of Android (usually as a secondary phone), I've sideloaded one app: a pre-release game that I happily pulled down from the official channel once it went "official"

Side loading on Android is just a legal argument in courts, its made too complicated for normal users to use it.

What? Are we thinking of the same sideloading? You literally download an app (.apk) like any other file and then open it to start the installation.

OK, and the first time you do it, you get a warning and you have to enable loading apps from 3rd party sources.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#102

Post by realusername »

MatekCopatek wrote: post #101
realusername wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side loading on Android is just a legal argument in courts, its made too complicated for normal users to use it.

What? Are we thinking of the same sideloading? You literally download an app (.apk) like any other file and then open it to start the installation. OK, and the first time you do it, you get a warning and you have to enable loading apps from 3rd party sources.

You can't just open the apk directly, you have to enable installations for the browser and also go to deep in the settings and go past the scary warnings. That's not possible for the average user, not everybody is a developer.

That's not a viable distribution channel at scale and that's intended.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#103

Post by hayst4ck »

HumblyTossed wrote: post #67
huytersd wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ll see. I feel like it’s going to be a good Petri dish to see how shitty the third party stuff makes the Apple ecosystem.

Weird. How would it? You don’t have to buy anything except from the Apple Store if you don’t want to.

Imagine if Apple tried to implement privacy labels in a multi app store world. Rather than complying with an action that benefits the consumer, Google and Facebook could work together to create an app store that doesn't require privacy labels and then only publish GMail and WhatsApp/FBMessenger to their app store, forcing me to download and use their app store or not use my e-mail or standard means of communicating with my friends.

It becomes a race to the bottom, where rather than the app stores competing for consumers by improving features, the app stores compete for companies with apps at the cost of the consumer.

You can see this pattern emerge across many marketplaces. Look at AirBNB, terrible customer experience because they are competing for hosts. Amazon turned one of the worlds largest stores into a co-mingled flea market. Because apple has a captive audience, apps have a choice to have access to apple customers or not. Apple does not have to have to make concessions to business interests they would if they had to compete with other app stores to attract apps.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#104

Post by miohtama »

MatekCopatek wrote: post #101
realusername wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side loading on Android is just a legal argument in courts, its made too complicated for normal users to use it.

What? Are we thinking of the same sideloading? You literally download an app (.apk) like any other file and then open it to start the installation. OK, and the first time you do it, you get a warning and you have to enable loading apps from 3rd party sources.

I think he must be talking about the US users (:

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#106

Post by makeitdouble »

Tijdreiziger wrote: post #89
makeitdouble wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same reaction at first. It looks like and probably is an obvious tactic to evade the DMA. But then, if we look at Debian and Ubuntu for instance, we'd agree they're different even if there will be compatibility. I think Apple should be allowed to set each of their stores and OSes as separate but compatible entities. And I also think scrutiny should be applied not on an OS base but on a more generic "platfor…

Regardless of whether iOS and iPadOS are the same OS, I think it is substantially the case that they operate in different markets (smartphone market vs. tablet market).

I think looking at the competition is a good indicator.

On one side we have the hybrid computer market -> computer market, like Chromebooks and chromeOS devices, and Windows 11 in the same space.

On the other side android spans what we'd call phones up to 14" tablets, foldables brindging both ends.

iOS is clearly competing with android, and the iPad is way closer to android than Windows or even ChromeOS. The iOS/iPad split would relate to Apple's internal divisions more than a existing split of the market itself IMHO.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#107

Post by ephemeral-life »

spiderice wrote: post #99
ephemeral-life wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If their bad choices have negative effects on others, for example developers being exploited, then yes the choice should be made for them. It's the same as smoking or drinking. When you smoke, there are harmful effects to third parties so the government limits the use of those products. When millions of people make choices that lead to millions of other people being exploited, governments should get involved. That is…

The idea that iOS has been a negative for developers is a hilarious one. Funny that all those poor developers choose to develop on iOS before android because that’s where the money is.

Is it though? Before the iphone desktops were king. On desktops - developers could use any programming language and there was a standard language that was well supported on pretty much all systems (C), so no need to learn 4 different language ecosystems to target different platforms if you arent a language nerd. - you could release your software to users under any licence you see fit. - Software SDK's billed with flat fee's instead of revenue sharing. - Developers could develop in any environment and didn't have to depend on heavy, buggy IDE's. - Cross compilation for other systems was common. You didn't need a system from the target vendor to build and distribute software (although for testing purposes it was still common). - There weren't arbitrary rules on how you are allowed to monetize your software.

The developer experience since the release of mobile systems has dramatically decreased. To say that is not true is just naive. These electronic markets will form no matter what. If apple and google was wiped of the face of the earth today, new markets will form within months. Apple and Google act like the markets are their God given property but in reality they are piggy backing off their first mover's advantage.

Honestly, i feel sad to see your type of attitude on HackerNews.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#108

Post by eptcyka »

bdcravens wrote: post #84
ivanmontillam wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is that Europeans will eventually have a better experience with Apple than U.S. residents. It's not my intention to poison the well, but Apple feels like treating its customers like cattle.

Choice is good, though I can't help but wonder what % of European customers will start getting their applications from third-parties. In 12 or so years of on-again, off-again usage of Android (usually as a secondary phone), I've sideloaded one app: a pre-release game that I happily pulled down from the official channel once it went "official"

I want a Firefox that doesn't suck badly.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#109

Post by pharmakom »

jchw wrote: post #64
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a worse experience? I mean android phones and tablets are already something you can buy, people still buy Apple products despite that. > It's not my intention to poison the well, but Apple feels like treating its customers like cattle A lot of remember how the computing world was before, the Wild West that the EU is trying to make the only option. We aren’t eager to return to that, and would make different platfor…

The reason iPad is good is not because you're not allowed to choose what browser engine to use. It's, largely, because the hardware is simply better than anything else on the market. I think it is amusing that there is a contingent of Apple fans that actually believe the platform will get significantly worse because people are allowed to sideload and install browsers that have their own browser engines. I think this…

The hardware is better because of RnD, funded by high margins due to software lock-in. Not sure why people struggle to see the connection here.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#110

Post by Tijdreiziger »

makeitdouble wrote: post #106
Tijdreiziger wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of whether iOS and iPadOS are the same OS, I think it is substantially the case that they operate in different markets (smartphone market vs. tablet market).

I think looking at the competition is a good indicator. On one side we have the hybrid computer market -> computer market, like Chromebooks and chromeOS devices, and Windows 11 in the same space. On the other side android spans what we'd call phones up to 14" tablets, foldables brindging both ends. iOS is clearly competing with android, and the iPad is way closer to android than Windows or even ChromeOS. The iOS/iPad…

> iOS is clearly competing with android, and the iPad is way closer to android than Windows or even ChromeOS.

Yes, I definitely agree with that. However, you could contrive an argument that ‘since the tablet market is way smaller, it’s less important to regulate it.’

Personally I’m in agreement that the regulation should apply to both markets, though.

Post reply on HN