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iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

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Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#61

Post by wtallis »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #54
crazygringo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but your App Store commission is significantly lower as a percentage. So you're still going to wind up paying less money if you're collecting amounts like €5 or €10 or more from customers. In the cases where you'd come out worse, because your app is free or extremely low-cost like €1, then you shouldn't opt for the new business terms. You should use the current ones -- which show no indication of going away sinc…

> The point is that you've got a choice. Supposing I want to release a free, personal hobby project, app that uses some private APIs in iOS, to solve some long-standing usability or feature-gap within iOS, then no, I don't have a choice: I don't have an option at all: I can't release it in the Apple-run iOS App Store becuase it uses Private APIs, and I can't release it in a third-party App Store as a free app because…

What makes you think it'll be easier to get away with using private APIs by selling through a different storefront? Isn't Apple is still requiring all apps to be submitted for notarization?

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#62

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ivanmontillam wrote: post #32
mrtksn wrote: post #20

For anyone interested, EU has started an investigation on iPadOS despite not meeting the threshold: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_... The investigation should be completed within 12 months.

The funny thing is that Europeans will eventually have a better experience with Apple than U.S. residents. It's not my intention to poison the well, but Apple feels like treating its customers like cattle.

Or a worse experience? I mean android phones and tablets are already something you can buy, people still buy Apple products despite that.

> It's not my intention to poison the well, but Apple feels like treating its customers like cattle

A lot of remember how the computing world was before, the Wild West that the EU is trying to make the only option. We aren’t eager to return to that, and would make different platform purchasing decisions if we did. The EU is simply taking away choice, not adding to it.

I get it, Apple has an unfair advantage because they lock down their platform, and the EU making it suck as much as the other platforms, Apple will compete with the other platforms more fairly.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#63

Post by jchw »

I really think this is insanely poor strategy on Apple's part. They know damn well that they're simply delaying the inevitable, and probably in deluded hopes that this can get watered down significantly with enough effort, but I don't think the public or the government regulators are going to be amused by these stunts in the slightest.

They manage to get away with a lot by virtue of having probably the best PR in the entire computer industry as a whole, I don't think that's an exaggeration; but if they keep pulling moves like this, I feel they risk losing a lot of their public support. For me, it's quite unusual seeing even the most popular comments on sites like MacRumors absolutely trashing and condemning Apple--there is usually at least one highly sympathetic perspective that has a significant amount of mindshare, but in this case, it's hard to not see how egregious and petty this really is.

And to be fair, I doubt their famously positive reputation is going anywhere overnight, but there are definitely cracks forming, especially between this and the near-miss with the CSAM scanning debacle.

Well, the ball is in regulator's courts. I have mixed feelings about some of the EU tech regulation, but that doesn't justify malicious compliance like this, and I hope that regulators do their jobs and send a message that Apple (and Google) are not above the law.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#64

Post by jchw »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #62
ivanmontillam wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is that Europeans will eventually have a better experience with Apple than U.S. residents. It's not my intention to poison the well, but Apple feels like treating its customers like cattle.

Or a worse experience? I mean android phones and tablets are already something you can buy, people still buy Apple products despite that. > It's not my intention to poison the well, but Apple feels like treating its customers like cattle A lot of remember how the computing world was before, the Wild West that the EU is trying to make the only option. We aren’t eager to return to that, and would make different platfor…

The reason iPad is good is not because you're not allowed to choose what browser engine to use. It's, largely, because the hardware is simply better than anything else on the market.

I think it is amusing that there is a contingent of Apple fans that actually believe the platform will get significantly worse because people are allowed to sideload and install browsers that have their own browser engines. I think this is a truly ridiculous line of argument. I don't like the other line of argument, which goes somewhere along the lines of "We should tolerate Microsoft-esque anti-competitive behavior because otherwise Google Chrome's anti-competitive behavior might win", but that is literally a better argument, to be fair.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#66

Post by floydnoel »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #52
jachee wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a U.S. resident who’s eyeballs deep in the ecosystem… (well, I will be, come Friday…) and I feel much more valued by Apple than cattle. If there’s a future where there’s an app that requires me to install their store on my device to have the privilege of buying their app, I’m simply not buying that app. I’m pretty sure I’m not alone in that.

And if that turns out to be the case, then it doesn't need to be enforced, as people will select accordingly. And then, the people who do want to run things that Apple won't permit in the app store (browsers/emulators/JITs/scripting/etc), or that aren't economically viable with a 30% cut, will have the option of doing so. The existence of an option does not force you to choose that option.

until there's another pandemic, and your local government decides everyone has to install their tracking app. or any number of situations where users will be pressured by institutions they don’t have any control over.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#67

Post by HumblyTossed »

huytersd wrote: post #59
ivanmontillam wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is that Europeans will eventually have a better experience with Apple than U.S. residents. It's not my intention to poison the well, but Apple feels like treating its customers like cattle.

We’ll see. I feel like it’s going to be a good Petri dish to see how shitty the third party stuff makes the Apple ecosystem.

Weird. How would it? You don’t have to buy anything except from the Apple Store if you don’t want to.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#68

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

wtallis wrote: post #61
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point is that you've got a choice. Supposing I want to release a free, personal hobby project, app that uses some private APIs in iOS, to solve some long-standing usability or feature-gap within iOS, then no, I don't have a choice: I don't have an option at all: I can't release it in the Apple-run iOS App Store becuase it uses Private APIs, and I can't release it in a third-party App Store as a free app because…

What makes you think it'll be easier to get away with using private APIs by selling through a different storefront? Isn't Apple is still requiring all apps to be submitted for notarization?

My understanding is Apple’s notarization is about accountability than policy/approval: I’m okay with having my apps stamped with my legal identity - that’s no different to Microsoft AuthentiCode going right-back to the late-1990s.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#69

Post by HumblyTossed »

jachee wrote: post #49
ivanmontillam wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is that Europeans will eventually have a better experience with Apple than U.S. residents. It's not my intention to poison the well, but Apple feels like treating its customers like cattle.

I’m a U.S. resident who’s eyeballs deep in the ecosystem… (well, I will be, come Friday…) and I feel much more valued by Apple than cattle. If there’s a future where there’s an app that requires me to install their store on my device to have the privilege of buying their app, I’m simply not buying that app. I’m pretty sure I’m not alone in that.

That’s great. And that’s the way it should be.

Re: iPad users will miss out on third-party app stores, browser engines, and more

#70

Post by theshackleford »

davely wrote: post #60
dmart wrote: post #3

Suddenly it makes a lot more sense why Apple made a big deal about iPadOS being its own separate OS, even though the differences are so minimal.

I say this as a huge Apple fan: the iPad strategy is ridiculously frustrating (for my purposes). The crux of the issue is that the latest Pros have one of the most awesome and powerful processors on the market for traditional computing purposes, but all that power is locked behind a toy OS that you can’t do much with. There are few meaningful differences in the underlying hardware between this and a MacBook Air, but…

> but all that power is locked behind a toy OS that you can’t do much with.

You and I may not be able to do our jobs on it, but I know people using it as their primary machine, including people running their entire business off it. (Such as my sister who runs a very successful photography/design Business with only an iPad Pro.)

It’s not for me, but I can accept not everybody requires the same of their machine and software as I do.

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