Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

apnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

801–810 of 1001 posts

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#801

Post by kilolima »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #788
int_19h wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Brits were firebombing German cities, that had very little to do with freeing anyone from anything. Even at the time it was recognized by many as an act of revenge, and it's hard to not take the same impression from how Israel is conducting itself in Gaza, especially given some telling remarks from Israeli leadership.

> at the time it was recognized by many as an act of revenge In part. Air power was new at the time, and there was legitimate strategic ambiguity around the military value of removing war factories’ workforces. (This is why Germany and Britain bombed by night while America bombed by day.)

I'd be curious to see a citation for this claim if you remember it. Thanks!

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#802

Post by weatherlite »

saiya-jin wrote: post #614
locallost wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I knew the answer to that question I would be a high ranked politician. But for me it's important to keep in mind what he is saying here and also in another part explicitly: a diplomatic solution is possible and history proves that. So what I can do is reject the notion that what is happening is unavoidable.

Well, the alternative to diplomatic solution is total annihilation of palestinians in west bank, be it by forcing them off the land which is impossible since they have nowhere to run and other islamic states refuse them (so much for inter-muslim brotherhood, I guess Iran should take them), or murdering them one by one which seems to be going on now. Or what we had till now, which led to what we have now. It doesnt ma…

> Well, the alternative to diplomatic solution is total annihilation of palestinians in west bank, be it by forcing them off the land

What makes you so certain it's the Palestinians and not the Jews this will happen to? It's the stated goal of the Palestinians and much of the extreme Muslim world surrounding Israel to drive away the Jews and it's not far fetched to see them eventually succeed.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#803

Post by Sabinus »

krainboltgreene wrote: post #649
locallost wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I knew the answer to that question I would be a high ranked politician. But for me it's important to keep in mind what he is saying here and also in another part explicitly: a diplomatic solution is possible and history proves that. So what I can do is reject the notion that what is happening is unavoidable.

> If I knew the answer to that question I would be a high ranked politician The solution is simple, avoiding the solution in order to create a western military power ally in the middle east is what high ranked politicians do.

>avoiding the solution

The West isn't the one avoiding the solution. If it were up to us, two state would have been sorted decades ago, as evidenced by the repeated peace summits the US has hosted.

Israel believe they can't integrate the bulk of the Palestinian population, and there to afraid of attack to live next to an independent Palestinian state.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#804

Post by shakil »

Qem wrote: post #769
throwaway421967 wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the comment that I replied to was flagged, I'm posting this here because it is simply a statement of facts. - Judge Barak's numbers on civilian deaths on 7th october are simply wrong and could've been easily checked. 766 civilians were killed, 1200 was the total number of deaths (including armed forces). - Israel's own numbers say "2 civilians killed for every one militant"[1], that's 66% in the Gaza offensive.…

Regarding the people that died on October 7, one important detail is evidence surfaced it appears a sizeable fraction was killed due to Israeli military attacking militants and hostages without distinction, to avoid capture, following the so called Hannibal directive: https://thecradle.co/articles/israeli-army-ordered-mass-hann... https://thegrayzone.com/2023/11/25/israels-october-7-propaga... https://en.m.wikipedia.…

Why is this flagged/down voted? Its just a plain statement of fact, supported by credible sources and references. Here's some more references if people think this didn't happen. The IDF attacked and fired on the Nova festival goers with Apache helicopters [1], an Israeli tank fired shells at Kibbutz Be'eri killing hostages and children, and stories of eight babies killed at the kibbutz have been proven to be false, among other things [3], [4]

1. https://www.businessinsider.com/idf-mistakenly-hit-festival-...

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be%27eri_massacre#Survivors'_t...

3. https://archive.is/Zn3Bt

4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L91kG_bYsn0

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#805

Post by teleforce »

Those who want to know the proper history and context of the current conflict, you really owe it to yourself to read this well researched book by Prof Rashid Khalidi, The Hundred Years' War on Palestine [1]. In his latest book he even mentioned Israel - Palestinian latest major war (fifth war in chronological order) in the form of many years of blockade on the people of Gaza. The fact that this book was published several years (2017) before the event happened kind of foretelling that now we have an on-going all out war between one of mightiest army of the modern world against people without a country and no official army to its defense.

[1] The Hundred Years' War on Palestine (2017):

https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781627798556/thehundredyears...

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#806

Post by weatherlite »

skybrian wrote: post #751
pgeorgi wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then? Spend tons of money on iron dome to shoot down the rockets and hope that Hamas won't manage to conduct another massacre, even if "only" half the scope of October 7? This mess features not one but two parties who currently reject the concept of a cease fire.

While I'm not a military expert, I think it would be reasonable to rule out the possibility of a similar massacre any time soon, for decades at least. It seems unlikely that Hamas would get away with it a second time? They put everything into a one-day surprise attack. The Israeli defense was caught unprepared despite being warned, but they have much more power and they can learn. What happens in the wider conflict (…

> While I'm not a military expert, I think it would be reasonable to rule out the possibility of a similar massacre any time soon

I'm not sure its reasonable. No one in Israel is thinking that way at least, and for good reason imo. The motivation to kill is there, so you have to assume there's a lack of ability. OK maybe for a couple of years Hamas will have to regroup, but how much time does it take to get a couple thousands more guns and grenades and bombs when Iran is giving them for free? It doesn't have to be another attack of this magnitude, even killing "only" 100 Israelis would be a huge blow.

You prevent this type of shit from happening again by being dead serious about countering terror, about deploying sufficient defense and not assuming too much about what the enemy can do because you might not have an accurate picture. Israel has been doing none of that in Gaza in the last decade or more.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#807

Post by FpUser »

protomolecule wrote: post #654
jeswin wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SA does not really present itself as an earnest or true actor in the sphere oh human rights. If Putin is arrested in a foreign country, you'll have the largest nuclear weapons arsenal in the world staring down at the very existence of that nation. No country would do this, however earnest they may be about human rights. Neither will it be fair to expect anyone to do this.

"you'll have the largest nuclear weapons arsenal in the world staring down at the very existence of that nation" Do you really think that Russian government and military would kill in cold blood tens of millions of people over Putin's fate? Besides, they would be too busy jockeying for power after Putin is out of the game.

So you want to play a game of Russian roulette? If you and your kind are the only potential victims I'd say go for it. Otherwise thanks but no.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#808

Post by networkchad »

Wytwwww wrote: post #613
nvm0n2 wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel's government doesn't care about PR hassle from the usual suspect. We may notice that they've had plenty of that lately and it did not stop them at all. Even if doing what the ICJ wants is easy, there's a strong reason not to (from their perspective) - it implies the ICJ should be obeyed and legitimizes them. But why should Israel do that? It's just another leftie NGO from Netenyahu's perspective. Start followi…

> Hamas attacks again and again. Considering how reliant Netenyahu's political career was/is on Hamas continuing to exist it's likely that's going to happen anyway. An actual long-term solution would be a huge blow to all of the right.

[dead]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#809

Post by ignoramous »

throwaway260124 wrote: post #53

A great article from an international law prof explaining the finding can be found here: https://www.ejiltalk.org/icj-indicates-provisional-measures-... The blog has articles on the topic from both sides from numerous lawyers

Ditto for JustSecurity: https://www.justsecurity.org/91457/top-experts-views-of-intl... / https://archive.is/l4Du7

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#810

Post by ignoramous »

mrangle wrote: post #718

The primary problem was always that there are too many parties who have an interest in the existence of Hamas. Put differently, there are too many parties with an interest in using the Palestinians as pawns. Leaving aside the views of any specific Palestinian. As no serious person can dispute the ease of radicalizing destitute people without educations and with PTSD. As long as this is the case, the Palestinians, on…

> dispute the ease of radicalizing destitute people without educations and with PTSD

Using the same broad stroke generalization and similarly de-humanizing moral compass; how do you judge the society these people celebrating child murder, arson, death, riots, mass executions, hateful incitement belong to: https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/17237393892624344...

> But that is what will be required to take Palestinian civilians out of the middle of this endless nightmare

One might say, the chief among requirements is for the occupation of a people who have rejected it every step of the way to end. Everything else is a distraction.

Post reply on HN