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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#701

Post by dang »

adhamsalama wrote: post #697
nomdep wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Please don't post flamewar comments to HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

I'm sure that you have legitimate reasons to feel the way you do, but you're posting to this thread in a way that is against the intended spirit, as I tried to explain it in the pinned comment at the top. Please don't do that. If you can't post in the intended spirit, that's understandable, but in that case please don't post until you can.

(Exactly the same thing, of course, goes for the commenters you're in disagreement with - for example https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39151611)

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#702

Post by dang »

nomdep wrote: post #690
dang wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not accurate. It's common for people with strong feelings on a topic to leap to the conclusion that the mods are biased against their side and secretly supporting the opposite. This happens from every perspective on every divisive topic. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

You are right, it's unfair because there is no strong evidence to make that assertion. I don't mind about what are your personal political affiliations or sympathies, however, I still maintain that this topic is textbook against the guidelines, and because of that I'm still afraid we will see post against candidate X in the front page in a few months. Time will tell.

That's a common misunderstanding of HN's guidelines; what they say is that most stories about politics are off-topic, and of course most != all. This has been the case for a long time—see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4922426 for example, or https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 for tons of other examples.

The question of how/where to draw the line is tough, but it's also one that we arrived at a relatively stable answer to a long time ago. I've written about this a bunch: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so....

I'm not saying we always make the right call—we don't, and anyhow people always disagree about what the right call is. But the underlying principles are at least pretty clear.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#703

Post by mkoubaa »

w0mbat wrote: post #610
hypeit wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel must face the reality that is an apartheid state that exists on occupied land. There is no solution until that happens. Just like apartheid South Africa was dismantled, Israel has to face the same fate or forever be locked into warfare and oppressing Palestinians.

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Well they are not not indigenous.

But calling them "the indigenous" is not correct. DNA studies done by Israeli scientists on Palestinian subjects show that they descend from indigenous groups including Judea.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#704

Post by adhamsalama »

golergka wrote: post #578
smoothjazz wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I'm not trying to mis-read the verdict which is why I asked the question. I think all of Israel's strategies to date include the death of Palestinians. Since that's explicitly forbidden with that ruling, how will they continue to fight? Will they just ignore the ruling or change tactics?

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Does killing over 25000 Palestinians in 3 months and starving the rest not involve deaths of Palestinians civilians?

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#705

Post by anon291 »

megous wrote: post #566
anon291 wrote: post #414

At the end of the day, the ICJ does not matter because it has no military, and the only major military power in the world, the United States of America, doesn't recognize its jurisdiction at all. Next time, they should try the Supreme Court if they actually want to make a difference (not that it'd work)

America recognizes ICJ. It even has a judge in it, which presides the court currently. https://icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/donoghue_en.pdf

It has an American on it, but the United States no longer accepts its jurisdiction:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice

> For example, the United States had previously accepted the court's compulsory jurisdiction upon its creation in 1946 but in 1984, after Nicaragua v. United States, withdrew its acceptance following the court's judgment that called on the US to "cease and to refrain" from the "unlawful use of force" against the government of Nicaragua. The court ruled (with only the American judge dissenting) that the United States was "in breach of its obligation under the Treaty of Friendship with Nicaragua not to use force against Nicaragua" and ordered the United States to pay war reparations.[21]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#706

Post by mkoubaa »

collegeburner wrote: post #670
hypeit wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel must face the reality that is an apartheid state that exists on occupied land. There is no solution until that happens. Just like apartheid South Africa was dismantled, Israel has to face the same fate or forever be locked into warfare and oppressing Palestinians.

apartheid is a loaded term of opinion, not of fact. comparing israel to other true apartheid regimes, such as south africa, is hyperbolic. there exist discriminatory policies that ought to be reformed but i do not believe that word is appropriate. israel does, in fact, exist on some occupied land that she should return, including many west bank settlements. however, there is something to be said for keeping parts as…

All metaphors are wrong, some metaphors are useful. The word "burn" applies to both first and third degree burns.

Characteristics of apartheid can exist even if it is not at the severity experienced by black south Africans. The analogy here has utility, and racism towards Palestinians is unfortunately a huge problem in Israeli society.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#707

Post by adhamsalama »

xenospn wrote: post #70
smoothjazz wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I'm not trying to mis-read the verdict which is why I asked the question. I think all of Israel's strategies to date include the death of Palestinians. Since that's explicitly forbidden with that ruling, how will they continue to fight? Will they just ignore the ruling or change tactics?

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#708

Post by HDThoreaun »

nojvek wrote: post #637
mderazon wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is looking at the conflict from western eyes. Religious fundamentalists don't think like that

We could have said this about Germany and Japan after WWII. Every human no matter their race and religion cares about having food, water, safety, opportunity, live in a law abiding society where their rights are respected and they get “some” choice to vote for their future.

Germany and japan returned to their pre war borders after the war. Gaza does not have the land or resources to sustain its population. It literally needs to expand to have any amount of stability.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#709

Post by Timber-6539 »

ajb wrote: post #36

The actual rulings can be found at https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192... and a summary is: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192... Dissents etc can be found in the case page: https://www.icj-cij.org/case/192 - in particular the opinion of Judge Aharon Barak, the Israeli ad-hoc Judge (a peculiarity of the ICJ is that each side gets to add a judge, but it doesn't have m…

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#710

Post by HDThoreaun »

Aeolun wrote: post #684
pgeorgi wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then? Spend tons of money on iron dome to shoot down the rockets and hope that Hamas won't manage to conduct another massacre, even if "only" half the scope of October 7? This mess features not one but two parties who currently reject the concept of a cease fire.

> All correct and yet, what should happen? Happy, fed, employed people do not become terrorists. They have too much to lose.

Too bad gaza has no land or economy to feed and employ themselves.
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