Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

apnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

511–520 of 1001 posts

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#511

Post by nemo44x »

locallost wrote: post #466

My views on the situation aside, the clearest I saw anyone communicate the issues from a global angle was the former French prime minister Dominique de Villepin Translated here: https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1718201487132885246 Viewed from the angle of the West, I think the message it needs to avoid isolating itself from the world is very unusual for Western media and important. Quote: "Westerners must ope…

> The law of retaliation is a never-ending cycle.

Well, there are ways to end it. Historically there have been thousands of cyclical conflicts that eventually ended without a diplomatic solution.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#512

Post by KittenInABox »

Aunche wrote: post #469
rufus_foreman wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Israel believes they are demonstrating restraint From the section of the ICJ ruling dealing with dehumanizing language used by Israeli officials: > "I have released all restraints . . . You saw what we are fighting against. We are fighting human animals" -- Mr Yoav Gallant, Defence Minister of Israel

[flagged]

After 9/11, the united states president at least tried to say "hey not all muslims, alright?"

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#513

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jeswin wrote: post #230
timcobb wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> South Africa asks ICC to exempt it from Putin arrest https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2YY1E6/ SA does not really present itself as an earnest or true actor in the sphere oh human rights.

> SA does not really present itself as an earnest or true actor in the sphere oh human rights. If Putin is arrested in a foreign country, you'll have the largest nuclear weapons arsenal in the world staring down at the very existence of that nation. No country would do this, however earnest they may be about human rights. Neither will it be fair to expect anyone to do this.

> If Putin is arrested in a foreign country, you'll have the largest nuclear weapons arsenal in the world staring down at the very existence of that nation

Eh, or not. Putin isn’t Russia. Depending on timing, it might be a convenient time for a change in government. They could then demand his remittance, where he would no doubt get lost along the way or have a change of heart about his place in public policy.

That said, the prudent thing to do is that which was done. Barring Putin from entering South Africa.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#514

Post by dragonwriter »

thsksbd wrote: post #497

The ICJ punted. The ruling is a joke, how can you rule against the defendant and yet order the defendant to monitor themselves? The ICJ knew if it found against Israel it would loose all credibility outside the West, but it also had too much political pressure from the West to rule for Israel.

> The ICJ punted.

No, it didn't. It ruled on what amounts to (in the parlance of the US legal system) a preliminary injunction, ordering one because the pleadings and supporting evidence on initial review warrant it, while the process of a trial on the merits will take longer.

> The ruling is a joke, how can you rule against the defendant and yet order the defendant to monitor themselves?

The only people the ICJ can order are the parties. External monitoring and enforcement is a matter for, primarily, the UN Security Council.

> The ICJ knew if it found against Israel it would loose all credibility outside the West, but it also had too much political pressure from the West to rule for Israel.

The process by which the ICJ might rule for or against Israel, rather than ordering provisional measures, is much longer. This is just an early part of the case.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#515

Post by [deleted] »

voisin wrote: post #463
throwaway587 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a question you need to ask Jewish people, not HN. The response you'll get here obviously won't answer this question, because the people responding are either not Jewish, or the format doesn't lend itself to a genuine answer. But, a mistake you make in asking the question is two-fold, one - the Holocaust was not a lesson taught to Jews so they'll learn empathy. It was something horrible and traumatic that was…

> the Holocaust was not a lesson taught to Jews so they'll learn empathy. It was something horrible and traumatic that was done to them. Well of course I am not suggesting that it was a lesson to teach empathy. My comment was merely that people who suffer traumas tend to have empathy for other people suffering similar traumas. I don’t think this is a particularly controversial observation. > Two - comparing the Holoc…

[deleted]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#516

Post by DDSDev »

tomp wrote: post #330
rightbyte wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chinese warships will never be allowed anywhere near the Mediterranean in the first place There have been Chinese navy visits to the Mediterranean. You can sail in on international water. (Edit: Nope, it's to narrow) "Chinese naval ships visit Morocco" http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/CHINA_209163/Exchanges/News_20918...

Casablanca is Atlantic, not Mediterranean. You cannot get into the Mediterranean without passing through territorial waters.

While what you are saying is technically true, Chinese ships would be allowed to exercise their right of Transit Passage under UNCLOS through the Strait of Gibraltar.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#517

Post by aprilthird2021 »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #479
locallost wrote: post #466

My views on the situation aside, the clearest I saw anyone communicate the issues from a global angle was the former French prime minister Dominique de Villepin Translated here: https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1718201487132885246 Viewed from the angle of the West, I think the message it needs to avoid isolating itself from the world is very unusual for Western media and important. Quote: "Westerners must ope…

> The law of retaliation is a never-ending cycle How many wars have the US and Japan fought after WWII? Or France and Germany after WWII? How many wars have the US Government and Native Americans fought after 1900? Sometimes a clear, overwhelming victory ends cycles of violence.

The Marshall Plan and favorable trade agreements the allies gave Japan would never be extended by Israel the way it is and acts now, so there has to be another solution. Destruction didn't turn Germany and Japan around, the ability to uplift themselves did. The very thing which has been denied to Gaza since 2005 at least (and likely much longer)

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#518

Post by mrguyorama »

zogrodea wrote: post #468
aaomidi wrote: post #77

I do think that their future Feb ruling is going to call for a ceasefire. If they called for one now, Israel & especially the US were just going to ignore it and reduce the power of the court. Israel has created a beast that I don't think they can control themselves. I do think that the court is going to get more legitimacy after they explicitly tell Israel to __chill__, for Israel not to chill, and then get the ceas…

I’m not a fan of Trump’s domestic policies, but I’m absolutely sure that he has the moral high-ground over Biden right now. Trump used to be a supporter of Israel and to some extent still is, but he did during his presidency see that the Palestinians want peace more than the other side. I can’t imagine Trump going behind Congress’ back to arm Israel as Biden has done. https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-i-thought-isr…

[flagged]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#519

Post by nsguy »

akira2501 wrote: post #480
robertoandred wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not an apartheid nation. Over 20% of Israelis are Arab.

Are they represented in any way in the Knesset? Are they treated the same is Jewish Israeli citizens when travelling? What about the Arabs in East Jerusalem? Are non Jewish citizens actually afforded equal protections under the Basic Laws? Does the "Law of Return" apply to non-Jewish Israelis? Economically, how are the Arabs doing compared to the Jews?

Yes, Israeli Arabs are fairly represented in the Knesset, and in the courts, and everywhere. They carry an Israeli passport and are treated the same way and have the same travel rights.

The people not treated the same are people that live in the occupied territories. The status of those territories has not been settled since 1967. I.e. the West Bank and Gaza. Israel accepts that those are occupied territories (it has not annexed them). The parties they were taken from (Jordan and Egypt) do not wish to take them back. So "Israel" proper does not discriminate against Arabs (broadly speaking) but the status of the occupied territories, that are under military rule, according to international law, is different.

EDIT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel#Politi...

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#520

Post by lacker »

hypeit wrote: post #477
pgeorgi wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then? Spend tons of money on iron dome to shoot down the rockets and hope that Hamas won't manage to conduct another massacre, even if "only" half the scope of October 7? This mess features not one but two parties who currently reject the concept of a cease fire.

Israel must face the reality that is an apartheid state that exists on occupied land. There is no solution until that happens. Just like apartheid South Africa was dismantled, Israel has to face the same fate or forever be locked into warfare and oppressing Palestinians.

Isn't that exactly the view of reality that the Israeli right wing holds? They would agree that the choices are either dismantling the state of Israel, or eternal warfare. Since they don't want to dismantle the state of Israel, they elect for eternal warfare.

It's funny how on some questions, the most extreme people on both sides agree on the answer. Hamas and the Israeli right wing both agree that the only viable solution is for one ethnic group to control all the land from the river to the sea.

Post reply on HN