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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#321

Post by aaomidi »

shmatt wrote: post #140
aaomidi wrote: post #77

I do think that their future Feb ruling is going to call for a ceasefire. If they called for one now, Israel & especially the US were just going to ignore it and reduce the power of the court. Israel has created a beast that I don't think they can control themselves. I do think that the court is going to get more legitimacy after they explicitly tell Israel to __chill__, for Israel not to chill, and then get the ceas…

[flagged]

I'm not sure what I will do, but I'm not voting for Trump either way.

There is a lot written about civil disobedience through not partaking in electoral politics, and that's _likely_ the direction I'm going to go if Biden does not change his tone (and hopefully actually do a proper apology for his actions so far).

This sucks, and I'll participate in local and even congressional elections, but for president I can not really find myself voting for Biden. I do not expect myself to agree 100% with any candidate, but there are certain red-lines that a candidate can not cross. I have a few of those, being anti-abortion is not something I can tolerate in any candidate. Being pro-mass-killing-looking-like-genocide is also one. I suspect this feeling is not unique to me.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#322

Post by The_Colonel »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #177
shkkmo wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how military operations outside of a country's legal territory is considered an "internal affair"

I believe parent was referring to the Uyghur genocide[1] not the Territorial disputes in the South China Sea[2]. The line of thinking is that if Israel is subject to international courts/laws regarding genocide for its action, then China will be too. China's participation in judging Israel opens itself to the same judgement. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial…

That line of thinking doesn't make sense since Xinjiang is part of China while Gaza isn't part of Israel. One is a domestic question, the other isn't (going by the international recognition).

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#323

Post by rightbyte »

stcroixx wrote: post #217
handoflixue wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the US stops all support immediately, this could be the end of Israel. How would Israel disappear? Palestine is clearly no match for them - who else is expected to suddenly move in? I certainly think we could stop funding their military while still pledging to support them if someone actually tries to invade. Keep in mind, Israel has it's own defense budget - it's not like it's military just disappears when US f…

Iran is who is expected to suddenly move in under this scenario.

They don't even share borders. How "suddenly" could they possible cross Iraq and Syria?

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#324

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

shmatt wrote: post #140
aaomidi wrote: post #77

I do think that their future Feb ruling is going to call for a ceasefire. If they called for one now, Israel & especially the US were just going to ignore it and reduce the power of the court. Israel has created a beast that I don't think they can control themselves. I do think that the court is going to get more legitimacy after they explicitly tell Israel to __chill__, for Israel not to chill, and then get the ceas…

[flagged]

Calling it a Muslim ban is pretty disingenuous, and always was. The ban left out some very large Muslim countries, such as Indonesia and Pakistan for example.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#325

Post by SomeoneFromCA »

bawolff wrote: post #320
SomeoneFromCA wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ruling is so politically ambiguous, so israel will probably be digesting it for awhile. Perhaps lowering the military activities.

I don't know, that part seemed really clear. I think the ambigious part would more be the order about aid (how much aid is sufficient?)

Because this ruling is clearly about reading between lines. It feels like it is simply directly chanelling US will.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#326

Post by The_Colonel »

archagon wrote: post #268
mantas wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a terrorist act if it was performed by a democratically elected government?

[flagged]

It's a standard tactic of drowning readers with lies and misleading "facts". It takes time to refute them.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#327

Post by bawolff »

blitz_skull wrote: post #282

What's the ICJ's actual ability to enforce this? "Orders" sounds like they have some sort of weight to throw around if Israel doesn't comply, but I'm not familiar with the ICJ or what possible consequences could arise if Israel simply decided it was going to do what it wanted.

In theory i think they are supposed to ask the security council to step in if the order is ignored. Which would be unlikely to do anything, so nothing.

I think its likely israel will comply. The order is pretty weak and mostly stuff israel already claims to be doing. It wouldn't be worth the PR hassle to ignore it.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#328

Post by biorach »

drc500free wrote: post #14
tycho-newman wrote: post #3

Under the Rome Statute that set up the international criminal court, apartheid is defined as a crime where: >inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them". Netanyahu's approach to the Palestinians likely fits into this definition.

It's worth noting that system does not apply to 2 million Israeli Arabs (nearly all of whom self-identify as "Palestinian" from an ethnic/national perspective) of the exact same race as the Palestinians in the occupied territories. The overt driver of the system - and the one that is agreed to across the whole Jewish-Israeli population - is the security issue of a Palestinian population that has held since 1948 that…

> Israel shows every day that they are willing and able to live closely with the Palestinians who accept their right to exist and aren't trying to murder their families, without using apartheid-like systems of control

This is very much not the case in the West Bank where expropriation and colonisation of Palestinian land by Israeli settlers continue, under the watchful eye of the Israeli army.

The Israeli state has done it's best to ensure that there can be no viable Palestinian state, condemning millions of Palestinians to eternal military occupation and second class status in their own homeland.

Any claim that Israel is acting in good faith towards Palestinians is very much undermined by these facts.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#329

Post by Sporktacular »

smoothjazz wrote: post #225
Sporktacular wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has nuclear weapons. By the logic of even developing them, there's no reason not to deploy them if it faces conquest. Any existential crisis facing Israel will not come from outside.

Israel can face defeat without everybody dying (which is what would happen if they tried to use nuclear weapons). The US has enough control over Israel to make sure that never happens. We are a far greater military power than Israel.

If they were being successfully invaded, and facing defeat, the US would not be able to stop them from using nukes. What is the US going to do otherwise? End its support of a country that no longer exists?

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#330

Post by tomp »

rightbyte wrote: post #175
mschuster91 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gaza has a sizable coastline, and China has a large number of amphibious assault ships available. They can defend themselves against Israel air attacks. Chinese warships will never be allowed anywhere near the Mediterranean in the first place - if there is one thing that even the split US Congress will agree on, it is that China already has too much influence and that they need to be stopped. Additionally, China's…

> Chinese warships will never be allowed anywhere near the Mediterranean in the first place There have been Chinese navy visits to the Mediterranean. You can sail in on international water. (Edit: Nope, it's to narrow) "Chinese naval ships visit Morocco" http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/CHINA_209163/Exchanges/News_20918...

Casablanca is Atlantic, not Mediterranean.

You cannot get into the Mediterranean without passing through territorial waters.

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