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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#271
post #263

Hi All, I am a combat soldier and commander in the IDF currently fighting in Gaza. We are not committing any genocide. The give away for Genocide is that there are mass graves, which in Gaza there are not. Yes there is collateral damage because Hamas uses civilians as human shields, so we have no choice but to kill them too, but we do not specifically target them. We risk ourselves and our soldiers to ensure that the…

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#272
post #263

Hi All, I am a combat soldier and commander in the IDF currently fighting in Gaza. We are not committing any genocide. The give away for Genocide is that there are mass graves, which in Gaza there are not. Yes there is collateral damage because Hamas uses civilians as human shields, so we have no choice but to kill them too, but we do not specifically target them. We risk ourselves and our soldiers to ensure that the…

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well thank god you'll be spared having colleagues from Gaza since Israel usually cuts off the internet there, because otherwise you'd have seen much worse than someone yelling rockets lol. Also, I'm sure the Ukraine war would've ended if Ukraine would've just surrendered, what's your point? You realize that you could say that for basically every war ever, and that the enemy not surrendering doesn't allow you to commi…

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Hamas have to adhere to an ICJ ordered ceasefire?

No. Because they are a terrorist organisation. Israel is expected to because they are not.

Hamas is democratically elected government in Gaza.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#275

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I don't believe that this would end if Hamas released their hostages. Ultimately, it would put Palestine back to where they were before October 7th except civilians would be much worse off. Still living under Israeli occupation with limited freedom of movement, limited external assistance, etc. Except now, they'd have no hospitals, no infrastructure, housing, etc. How can a place live Gaza possibly rebuild from that?

> where they were before October 7th except civilians would be much worse off. Still living under Israeli occupation with limited freedom of movement

Israel hasn't had any presence in Gaza for nearly 20 years.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#276
post #140
post #77

I do think that their future Feb ruling is going to call for a ceasefire. If they called for one now, Israel & especially the US were just going to ignore it and reduce the power of the court. Israel has created a beast that I don't think they can control themselves. I do think that the court is going to get more legitimacy after they explicitly tell Israel to __chill__, for Israel not to chill, and then get the ceas…

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I don’t love Trump, but there’s no denying there was far less war, and especially US-funded war, when he was in office. Ukraine-Russia massively escalated as soon as someone in the pocket of the military industrial complex got put in power, as Putin knew it would, and Israel followed suit soon after.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the US stops all support immediately, this could be the end of Israel. How would Israel disappear? Palestine is clearly no match for them - who else is expected to suddenly move in? I certainly think we could stop funding their military while still pledging to support them if someone actually tries to invade. Keep in mind, Israel has it's own defense budget - it's not like it's military just disappears when US f…

It's a common fallacy that money equates to purchasing power. That is only true so long as there continues to be a market with stable supply and stable prices. After COVID-19, many people had plenty of money, but you simply could not buy masks or vaccines at any price if there simply were no longer any to be sold. Militaries are just as interconnected as anybody else. They depend on supplies of weapons and munitions.…

Israel has quite a lot of domestic defense industry.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#278
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The civilian death toll in Gaza has been tragically high but there hasn't been any independent verification. Regardless of what's on Wikipedia, we can't trust specific numbers.

- Israel's own numbers say "2 civilians killed for every one militant"[1], that's 66% - 766 / 1200 = 63.8% Of course, the numbers claimed by other NGOs / UN make it worse. But Israel's numbers are sufficient to make that claim. [1] - https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-m...

Hamas can't go toe-to-toe with the IDF. They are hiding in tunnels and among civilians, so these ratios aren't surprising.

To some extent, you can't blame Hamas for these tactics. They would quickly lose a conventional war. At the same time, if you have zero chance of winning a military victory, perhaps you shouldn't use violence to pursue your political goals...

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#279
post #6

Perhaps I am unlearned in this area but I am unclear why the Jewish state, after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. Can anyone shed light on this? I understand completely the need to rid the world of Hamas terrorists, but in the process they have shown a reckless disregard (to put it mildly) for Palestinian people and their wellbeing.

This is a question you need to ask Jewish people, not HN. The response you'll get here obviously won't answer this question, because the people responding are either not Jewish, or the format doesn't lend itself to a genuine answer.

But, a mistake you make in asking the question is two-fold, one - the Holocaust was not a lesson taught to Jews so they'll learn empathy. It was something horrible and traumatic that was done to them. Two - comparing the Holocaust to what happens in Gaza means you're not aware of what the Holocaust was. Maybe you know highlights such as gas chambers etc, but not what it really was (through no fault of your own I'm sure).

But, to attempt some semblance of an answer. In the same way you wouldn't ask Haitians why their gov did terrible things to the DR and their population - didn't they learn from slavery? Or about India/Pakistan, didn't they learn from the raj? Or any of the African states in conflict - didn't they learn from colonialism? Or Turkey and Syria, Iraq/Iran etc. Then why ask this from Israelis? I hope you get my rhetorical point.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#280
post #263

Hi All, I am a combat soldier and commander in the IDF currently fighting in Gaza. We are not committing any genocide. The give away for Genocide is that there are mass graves, which in Gaza there are not. Yes there is collateral damage because Hamas uses civilians as human shields, so we have no choice but to kill them too, but we do not specifically target them. We risk ourselves and our soldiers to ensure that the…

> We are not committing any genocide.

The ICJ seems to disagree with you.

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