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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#221

Post by Adverblessly »

smoothjazz wrote: post #7
voisin wrote: post #6

Perhaps I am unlearned in this area but I am unclear why the Jewish state, after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. Can anyone shed light on this? I understand completely the need to rid the world of Hamas terrorists, but in the process they have shown a reckless disregard (to put it mildly) for Palestinian people and their wellbeing.

It's not about religion, it's about occupation. Zionists got permission to occupy the land from the British with The Balfour Declaration then started the invasion in full in 1948 with Nakba. When you occupy someone's land, there can never be peace until they get their land back or are fully exterminated or controlled militarily. This is why colonization most often leads to genocide or permanent apartheid.

> When you occupy someone's land, there can never be peace until they get their land back or are fully exterminated or controlled militarily.

I can certainly think of some other ethnicity in that region who had their land occupied and was cleansed from the region. They even somehow managed to survive an attempt to fully exterminate them! Surely there will be peace once they get all of their land back :)

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#222

Post by biorach »

smoothjazz wrote: post #7
voisin wrote: post #6

Perhaps I am unlearned in this area but I am unclear why the Jewish state, after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. Can anyone shed light on this? I understand completely the need to rid the world of Hamas terrorists, but in the process they have shown a reckless disregard (to put it mildly) for Palestinian people and their wellbeing.

It's not about religion, it's about occupation. Zionists got permission to occupy the land from the British with The Balfour Declaration then started the invasion in full in 1948 with Nakba. When you occupy someone's land, there can never be peace until they get their land back or are fully exterminated or controlled militarily. This is why colonization most often leads to genocide or permanent apartheid.

> there can never be peace until they get their land back or are fully exterminated or controlled militarily

That's very much not true.

Compromises are possible and are often the only way. Do I need to start listing examples?

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#223

Post by throway47362467 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #201
throway47362467 wrote: post #170

[flagged]

> Every thread in this conversation is A+ idiotic. … Reddit crowd I am not sure how this elitism is justified - when it comes to military or international law, there is no difference between asking on HN and a Joe off the street. Add in the fact that many software developers are, my, how to put this, emotionally challenged, and of course each thread will be idiotic.

It's not elitism, it's conservatism. The people who will signup are the same ones who upvote every "Trump got slammed by XX" threads on reddit. Once they know that another and a more genuine reddit exists, they'll starting shovel that stuff here too.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#224

Post by golf_mike »

dang wrote: post #37
golf_mike wrote: post #28

How is this hackernews?

HN's approach to stories with political overlap has been stable for many years*. I've written about it many times: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... . If you read some of those past explanations and still have a question about our general approach, let me know what it is. As for this particular story, I turned off the flags on it because it clearly counts as SNI (significant new informat…

Thanks, I guess Hackernews generally is my 'safe haven' from politics. Really not intending to bite or insult, just a lot happier reading about Dijkstra being a pedantic nano-Dijkstrahole or someone dumping a GBA rom through audio. The stuff from OP I read everywhere else. My heart cries for the for the world and HN generally is one of my tissues. Much love anyways.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#225

Post by smoothjazz »

Sporktacular wrote: post #218
theyinwhy wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US, under whichever administration, is in a very difficult position here. If the US stops all support immediately, this could be the end of Israel. Would that be just? I see a president carefully dancing on the thin line of supporting the Israel state while using the US leverage to stop the war (latest example: sending the CIA chief to the negotiating table). But this needs to be done without enabling Israel's bi…

Israel has nuclear weapons. By the logic of even developing them, there's no reason not to deploy them if it faces conquest. Any existential crisis facing Israel will not come from outside.

Israel can face defeat without everybody dying (which is what would happen if they tried to use nuclear weapons). The US has enough control over Israel to make sure that never happens. We are a far greater military power than Israel.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#226

Post by diego_moita »

timcobb wrote: post #200
TheCapeGreek wrote: post #71

I usually refrain from making much political commentary. I will say this: SA is a deeply troubled country, but for once I think the ruling government has actually done a good thing by pursuing this.

> South Africa asks ICC to exempt it from Putin arrest https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2YY1E6/ SA does not really present itself as an earnest or true actor in the sphere oh human rights.

> SA does not really present itself as an earnest or true actor in the sphere oh human rights.

Well, who does?

Among the major players in world politics I can't see any country with a clean reputation on human rights.

Disclaimer: I am Brazilian, a country with an horrible record of police brutality, of farmers killing indigenous people and environmental activists and an hypocritical ambivalence towards Putin's crimes. And that goes to the previous right-wing and current left-wing governments.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#229

Post by Sporktacular »

whalesalad wrote: post #176

[flagged]

All wars end when one side gives up.

Attacks and land theft on West Bank Palestinians are at a record high too. This will only end with the creation of a viable Palestinian state.

"This is war, there will be loss of life" is such a callous way to dismiss the disproportionality of this conflict.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#230

Post by jeswin »

timcobb wrote: post #200
TheCapeGreek wrote: post #71

I usually refrain from making much political commentary. I will say this: SA is a deeply troubled country, but for once I think the ruling government has actually done a good thing by pursuing this.

> South Africa asks ICC to exempt it from Putin arrest https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2YY1E6/ SA does not really present itself as an earnest or true actor in the sphere oh human rights.

> SA does not really present itself as an earnest or true actor in the sphere oh human rights.

If Putin is arrested in a foreign country, you'll have the largest nuclear weapons arsenal in the world staring down at the very existence of that nation. No country would do this, however earnest they may be about human rights. Neither will it be fair to expect anyone to do this.

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