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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#201

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> Every thread in this conversation is A+ idiotic. … Reddit crowd

I am not sure how this elitism is justified - when it comes to military or international law, there is no difference between asking on HN and a Joe off the street.

Add in the fact that many software developers are, my, how to put this, emotionally challenged, and of course each thread will be idiotic.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#202
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern-day Zionism to me and many others means that Israel has the right to exist. It does not absolve many, including self-proclaimed Zionists, from criticizing some of Israel policies. On other hand, my interpretation of people who are self-proclaimed anti-Zionists logically flows from above statement that they believe that the present state of Israel DOES NOT have a right to exist. Which implies deportation of ext…

I'm Jewish and I believe that Palestine should be a single democratic state that guarantees rights to all. No one has a right to an ethnostate, not even us. You see directly where this thinking leads — genocide.

As a westerner, I have never heard a single person in the western sphere mention a peaceful, non-occupational one state solution. How common is the idea of a democratic single state solution in Israeli politics? Do the advocates for it have a plan for dealing with the backlash from extremists on both sides? I'd like to read more about it. Now in the west it seems like even the two-state solution isn't up for discussion post-Trump.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#203
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. That's part of why they're acting this way. Security fears. I'm telling you, the median Israeli isn't motivated by bloodlust or a desire for land, they're motivated by a high level of fear that they will one day be killed by Hamas/Hezbollah/etc. That fear causes them to demand complete "security control" o…

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#204
post #77

I do think that their future Feb ruling is going to call for a ceasefire. If they called for one now, Israel & especially the US were just going to ignore it and reduce the power of the court. Israel has created a beast that I don't think they can control themselves. I do think that the court is going to get more legitimacy after they explicitly tell Israel to __chill__, for Israel not to chill, and then get the ceas…

I can assure you Israel will most likely ignore any resolution that does not involve the hostages returning.

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gaza has a sizable coastline, and China has a large number of amphibious assault ships available. They can defend themselves against Israel air attacks. Chinese warships will never be allowed anywhere near the Mediterranean in the first place - if there is one thing that even the split US Congress will agree on, it is that China already has too much influence and that they need to be stopped. Additionally, China's…

> Chinese warships will never be allowed anywhere near the Mediterranean in the first place There have been Chinese navy visits to the Mediterranean. You can sail in on international water. (Edit: Nope, it's to narrow) "Chinese naval ships visit Morocco" http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/CHINA_209163/Exchanges/News_20918...

Please make your substantive points without snark or swipes.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#206
post #6

Perhaps I am unlearned in this area but I am unclear why the Jewish state, after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. Can anyone shed light on this? I understand completely the need to rid the world of Hamas terrorists, but in the process they have shown a reckless disregard (to put it mildly) for Palestinian people and their wellbeing.

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#207
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how military operations outside of a country's legal territory is considered an "internal affair"

Gaza is kind of/maybe/sometimes/by some considered part ofisrael.

The notion that Gaza's more than some variety of closely-held protectorate is either aspirational or a convenient fiction, depending on who's stating it. They aren't even close to having a level of control over their own territory and affairs to be considered a sovereign state. Hell, the West Bank also can't credibly be called a sovereign state, taking into account only facts on the ground and observed behavior, and not what officials say. In some respects US tribal nations have more actual sovereignty, in ways that matter, even though they definitely aren't sovereign states, from an international relations perspective, and functionally nobody treats their tribal territory as meaningfully distinct from that of the US as a whole, in these contexts.

However, situations like this, in which rhetoric and de jure policy conflict with de facto reality, open one up to others taking the fiction at face value. And what do you do then? Can't deny it without causing other problems. So now this may be regarded as an international matter because Gaza "isn't part of Israel".

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US, under whichever administration, is in a very difficult position here. If the US stops all support immediately, this could be the end of Israel. Would that be just? I see a president carefully dancing on the thin line of supporting the Israel state while using the US leverage to stop the war (latest example: sending the CIA chief to the negotiating table). But this needs to be done without enabling Israel's bi…

> If the US stops all support immediately, this could be the end of Israel. How would Israel disappear? Palestine is clearly no match for them - who else is expected to suddenly move in? I certainly think we could stop funding their military while still pledging to support them if someone actually tries to invade. Keep in mind, Israel has it's own defense budget - it's not like it's military just disappears when US f…

It's a common fallacy that money equates to purchasing power. That is only true so long as there continues to be a market with stable supply and stable prices. After COVID-19, many people had plenty of money, but you simply could not buy masks or vaccines at any price if there simply were no longer any to be sold.

Militaries are just as interconnected as anybody else. They depend on supplies of weapons and munitions. If the supply is gone, the size of the budget doesn't matter.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#209
There's so much wiggle room within the statement. For example

78 - Israel must... take all measures within its power to prevent the commission of... acts... in particular: ... (d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.

Bombing or evacuating hospitals will have that effect, but it would be extremely difficult to prove intention. So they can keep doing what they say is necessary.

Many governments have issued vague calls to minimise civilian deaths etc. If Israel rejected those, it's hard to see it treating this differently.

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